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View Full Version : Confirmed! Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe!


New Era Outlaw
04-18-2008, 07:51 AM
Well, folks...it's confirmed.

The next game in the MK series is going to be a crossover title between Mortal Kombat vs. DC Comics. Take a look at this poster for the game, which shows Sub-Zero staring down Batman:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5160/cdswc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


I take it back....this can actually be quite awesome.
Stick around for more details!


Confirmed at the following sites:
Here (http://mksecrets.net/indexeng.php)
Here (http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/mortal-kombat-vs-dc-universe/news/mortal-kombat-vs-dc-universe-its-official-and-we-have-the-video/a-20080418161958421002/g-20080417144622312081)
...and, oh yeah...here. (http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/)

And, folks, remember...Google is your friend.

Geese
04-18-2008, 12:37 PM
i want to be excited...but somehow i'm not.

heady
04-18-2008, 01:07 PM
one word...


why?

New Era Outlaw
04-18-2008, 01:10 PM
i want to be excited...but somehow i'm not.


But, it's BATMAN. BATMAAAN!!!

I have high hopes for this game, as well as a healthy dose of skepticism as well. I'm hoping Midway can pull this off.

Geese
04-18-2008, 01:59 PM
i'm a big batman fan too but boon's rep doesnt exactly help sell me this game.

loki
04-18-2008, 02:00 PM
btw where is it confirmed???

www.worldscollide.com doesn't have any info on it.

Paradoxxx
04-18-2008, 02:49 PM
Sub Zero Vs Batman...
Batman!

New Era Outlaw
04-18-2008, 02:51 PM
btw where is it confirmed???

www.worldscollide.com doesn't have any info on it.


The domain isn't registered as yet.
MKSecrets (http://www.mksecrets.net) has some info as to why that site isn't up and running as yet. I'll edit this post with the details later.

Anyway, GamesRadar has the official EDIT: trailer (http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/mortal-kombat-vs-dc-universe/videos/g-20080417144622312081/v-20080417145329734070) up. In case you're having trouble loading it, click on 'News' above, and if you get a warning about the site being 'UK only', click the link they give you in that message and you should find the link to the video.

bill
04-18-2008, 04:26 PM
Zomg i can't wait for Tekken Vs chuck Norris.

New Era Outlaw
04-18-2008, 06:15 PM
Interview with Ed Boon.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/943567/6189499/mortal-kombat-vs-dc-universe-video-interview-1

Characters confirmed so far:

MORTAL KOMBAT:

-Scorpion
-Sub-Zero

DC COMICS:

-Superman
-Batman

...if you didn't see those choices coming, somebody should rip your spine out.

Some other tidbits:

-Midway has hired two writers from DC Comics to put the story together and explain how the invasion of MK and DC took place.

-For those of you curious as to how you can have a game like this without Superman just killing everybody in a single bound, Ed Boon explained that the extremely powerful characters would be watered down to a feasible level (in the storyline), while the more 'human' characters (like Batman) would be toned up, so that every character can fairly compete with each other, both from a fighting game and a storyline perspective.

-We know the T rating spells curtains for Fatalities. Ed Boon merely confirmed that there would be NO Stage Fatalities.

-Ed Boon describes 'big massive events', detailing people being flung through walls and buildings, flying through the air and fighting each other while falling (which you can see as Batman and Sub Zero beat each other senseless).

phoenix31tt
04-18-2008, 06:17 PM
Zomg i can't wait for Tekken Vs chuck Norris.

whats the point of making something vs chuck norris...

we done know who win... that game will be so broken

loki
04-18-2008, 06:30 PM
ok site is up now...

www.worldscollide.com...

still meh about the game...

Xecutiona
04-18-2008, 07:09 PM
yup...there would be no fatalities in this game...

whats mortal about combat without fatalities?

and who really wants to play a fighter with DC characters? marvel characters more suited for a fighting game.

LARUTO
04-18-2008, 08:25 PM
there can be no Kombat without Fatalities, that's why most people first tried it anyway...

about Dc characters, I think they can fight in quite well in a any game that a marvel character can fit into, they are basically the same pop culture arch-types, just with alot more 'god' level characters

Geese
04-18-2008, 09:43 PM
DC characters can fit a game just as well as Marvel characters, remember that capcom did a few games with marvel characters before X-men vs SF dropped and started the vs series.

loki
04-18-2008, 10:21 PM
batman is defn going to be whored... and if they use the new Green Arrow who right now is close to bats fighting skill then that would be cool...

throw in a kyle rayner... and i am good.

scaR
04-18-2008, 10:26 PM
This one has a lot of potential as far as the cool factor goes. I already want to play Batman.

Xecutiona
04-18-2008, 10:54 PM
i dont know....i was always " that guy" who found batman to be kinda un-superhero ish...

and after mk3 i lost interest in MK...i think that this could bring a revival for both MK and DC....if it works...

mojo
04-19-2008, 12:08 AM
saw the trailer on xplay...

yup the only reason i excited is because i get to beat up scorpion with batman!

raaaaaaaaa!

New Era Outlaw
04-19-2008, 09:02 AM
Wow. Batman seems to be drawing quite a crowd. Myself included. Batman is just that awesome.

permabasher
04-19-2008, 04:17 PM
yeah i heard about it and well i was kinda surprised by the randomness of it so... midway decided no more mk games then breaks out with this like wtf? lol but it seems strange the game styles somewhat very different im interested to see how they integrate eash series fighter and fighting styles into one but i definitely think that it will be one sided

Xecutiona
04-19-2008, 05:04 PM
sentencefullstopsenstencefullstopsentensefullstop

phoenix31tt
04-19-2008, 05:06 PM
what dc fighting games are there btw?

permabasher
04-19-2008, 09:08 PM
lol snes !!!! and i dont need full stops is e talks

omgzor lolz imz a noobs!

kayode
04-20-2008, 05:56 PM
Rubbish.

New Era Outlaw
04-21-2008, 01:44 PM
what dc fighting games are there btw?

As mentioned by permabasher, Justice League for the SNES and...that's all.


Now, I'm not going to go out on a limb and call the game rubbish yet.
I'll wait until some substantial previews come out, get a little gameplay in and then determine if the game's crap or not. Midway has a hell of a ball in their hands, so you know they'd better not drop it.

kayode
04-22-2008, 08:17 PM
You'd have to go out on a limb to not assume that this game will be rubbish.

Did you see that trailer? It looks like a step back for the genre. Which is quite an accomplishment for Mortal Kombat, all things considered.

DC's crazy...they really shoulda pursue a relationship with Capcom. This is one of the dumbest game ideas I've ever heard of.

Xecutiona
04-22-2008, 08:22 PM
i kinda hadda agree wit kayode on this one...mortal kombat is an already failing franchise...they trying to do what capcom did in the nineties with mvc and xmen vs Street fighter: revive themselves...

but i dont think that DC characters can do it...theyre cool and all but they all have a kinda blandness to them....to make them 3d characters in a MK game? i think its a bad idea.

hopefully i get proven wrong and the game comes out beautifully, but i believe id have a better chance getting a job as a snowplough driver in hell.

bill
04-23-2008, 02:42 PM
i wana see superman rip a mother ****ing head off...to bad i not going to :'(

LARUTO
04-24-2008, 11:38 AM
I would have preferred to see a straight DC based fighting game in 2d, but oh well.

Would be interesting to see which Dc villains make the cut.

heady
04-24-2008, 01:01 PM
ED BOON INTERVIEW
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j0lmU2418pg&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j0lmU2418pg&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

GARBAGE!!!! no fatalities Good Game! i loved the game when it was jus fatalities alone, not when they bring out all the babyality and friendship.... stewpssss.

btw how yuh last name go b Boon?!!?! ROFL!!!!!!!

New Era Outlaw
04-27-2008, 10:50 PM
From Mortal Kombat.Org, 28 things you need to know about MK vs. DC:



What we know about MK vs. DC Universe
25 Apr 2008 by Abismo



Armitage, a user from Midway Official Forums, has listed what we already know about the upcoming MK game:





1. This game may or may not be canon, that has yet to be decided.

2. No Fatalities.

3. There will be finishing moves that finish the opponent in a spectacular way, but it won't be gory.

4. There will be blood.





5. The game will be rated "T", however, Midway is looking to push the "T" rating as close to "M" as possible without crossing the line.

6. Approximately 20 characters total, this could change.

7. Various MK and DC arenas.

8. Freefall Kombat, where you and your opponent fight as you fall after being knocked off, or throwing your opponent, out of an arena.

9. Klose Kombat, where you grab the opponent and the camera goes into a boxing perspective, and you perform brutal attacks up close, making you the aggressor and the opponent goes on defense.





10. Arena destruction and interaction. You can throw your opponent through walls, off "cliffs", and into other parts of the arena.

11. Scorpion, Batman, Sub-Zero, and Superman are confirmed so far.

12. Due to the universal merger storyline, Superman is weakened by the magic effects, making him weaker and a balanced character.

13. MK/DCU will utilize the Unreal 3 engine, as well as original code developed by Midway.

14. The game will be released this fall, sometime between September and December.

15. The game will be for PS3 and Xbox 360. There is no unreal 3 engine for Nintendo Wii, however Ed Boon states that he has no problem with MK/DCU for the Wii if it can be done.





16. The storyline for the game will be written by comic book veterans Jimmy Palmotti (Monolith, 21 Down, Painkiller Jane) and Justin Gray (Jonah Hex, Crisis Aftermath: The Battle for Bludhaven, JLA Classified).

17. This game will not include any elements of previous games. No Konquest, and no Puzzle, motor, or chess Kombat.

18. MK vs DCU will feature a story mode from two different persectives, one from the DC side, and one from the MK side. Ed Boon mentioned that the DC characters will see the MK characters as the invaders, and vice-versa.

19. Ed said that the most "iconic" characters from MK and DC will appear.

20. From the trailer, it seems as though the Graveyard arena from MK3 will appear in MK/DCU, however this could be a completely new graveyard.

21. Classic special Moves will appear, such as Scorpion's spear and Sub-Zero's freeze. It has not been confirmed what special moves Superman and Batman will wield, however, Heat vision and batarangs, respectively, are safe guesses.





22. Daniel Day-Lewis is not in the game. The "there will be blood" poster on Noob.com is to remind people that, there will indeed be blood.

23. An MK vs DCU demo will be playable at E3 from July 15th to July 17th.

24. There will be no stage fatalities or deathtraps. This time around you will have to beat your opponent to death.

25. Midway's Marketing team knew people at DC and discussed it with them. When DC agreed, the idea was presented to Ed Boon who, after some deliberation, agreed to the idea. So it was Midway who began the crossover.

26. Character count might now be 22 characters total. 20 is the minimum expected. As before, half will be MK and half will be DC.

27. Clothing and mask damage. Bruises will possibly appear.

28. Ed Boon states that the game will "probably" be teen rated, making it a slight possibility that the game could be "M" rated. Don't count on it though, it would be best to expect a "T" rating, or you might be getting your hopes up for nothing.






Strangely enough, if you visit noob.com, what will greet you is a poster of actor Daniel Day Lewis, with the title 'There will be blood.'

New Era Outlaw
05-21-2008, 12:22 PM
Midway has released another high resolution render, this time, of the man of steel, Superman!

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3171/supermanrenderen1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Also, check out these levels from the game. The first one is Scorpion's stage. Some of you may remember it from Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks.


http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5374/mkdchell051508v01cs1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The other features Superman's stage, which is basically, a destroyed Metropolis:


http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8382/mkdcmetropolis051508v04uq9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wow. Those levels look kick ass.

New Era Outlaw
05-29-2008, 11:51 PM
Midway has released yet another render, and this time, it's of the Lin Kuei warrior, Sub-Zero:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2395/image09ow9jl1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

New Era Outlaw
06-19-2008, 11:08 AM
Some leaked screenshots have revealed two more characters in the game, Sonya Blade and the Flash.


http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/275/2ly5xt0rp3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4223/1060mfbkb0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Source: http://analoghype.com/blog/382/mk-vs-dc-screens-leak-sonya-and-flash-confirmed/


The fighting still looks rather stiff. I hope you're taking notes, Midway, because a lot of people are noticing that.


Also, two more stage renders have been revealed by Midway, both belonging to Batman. Here are renders of Gotham City and the Batcave:


http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9320/image04be5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4006/image05tj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

New Era Outlaw
06-24-2008, 09:00 PM
For those of you concerned about the 'no Fatalities' in this game, this might come across as some good news. Gamespot recently interviewed Ed Boon, and this is what he had to say:


GameSpot: Ed Boon Interview + New Screenshots
Posted On: Jun 25 2008, 12:38 AM

Today GameSpot has posted an interview with Mortal Kombat's Co-Creator Ed Boon. In this interview he confirms that Mortal Kombat VS. DC Universe will indeed have Fatalities and gives some information on what is going to be shown on E3 next month. Part of the update are 5 new screenshots from the game. Some of those screenshots show blood and really amazing looking cuts and bruises.

Here is a small peace of the interview:

GS: Have you made any more headway on the fatality versus finishing moves?

EB: Yes we have. All of the MK characters and all of the DC villains will have fatalities. The DC heroes who don't kill that often will have brutalities that will function just like fatalities but don't actually kill the opponent.

GS: What can we look for at E3?

EB: We will be showing four characters and two arenas.

GS: So now that the door's been opened with MK vs. DC, do you think fans might get MK vs. Street Fighter?

EB: I've never held back my enthusiasm for doing a project like MK vs. Street Fighter. I still think it would be a blast to do. But the reality of the situation is that we are two different companies. That's a tough obstacle to overcome. It's kind of like doing Tekken vs. Virtua Fighter, Die Hard vs. Rambo, Coke vs. Pepsi, "Family Ties" vs. "Growing Pains," Alien vs. Preda...never mind...you get the idea.



Source: http://www.mksecrets.net/indexeng.php


And now, some screenshots, also from MKSecrets:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8415/image08wh6.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image08wh6.jpg)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4195/image07ps2.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image07ps2.jpg)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1995/image09ho3.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image09ho3.jpg)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1747/image10lc1.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image10lc1.jpg)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/177/image11dj5.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image11dj5.jpg)

New Era Outlaw
06-29-2008, 09:59 AM
Another DC character has been revealed in the crossover line-up. Without further ado, heeeeeeere's Catwoman:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3816/catwomanrendertmkdv2lz4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


...lookin' good! =)

New Era Outlaw
07-09-2008, 10:47 AM
Another render has been released by Midway. This one gives us a closer look at the Flash.


http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/608/image01kj2.jpg

New Era Outlaw
07-10-2008, 10:23 PM
Another render has been released by Midway. This time, it features the first female Mortal Kombatant to have been announced for the game. So, without further ado, here's Sonya.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4219/image04lb6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


....dammit, stop staring at her boobs. Yes, I'm fully aware that her nips are showing. (http://www.mksecrets.net/images/newsarchive/2008/july/image04.jpg)

scaR
07-11-2008, 10:08 AM
NEO, I know you mean well and everything.. but you realise is only you still interested in this game after the craptacular trailer that was released?

New Era Outlaw
07-11-2008, 10:58 AM
Be that as it may, I still think you guys have a right to know what's the haps with this game. After all, the gaming scene encompasses a lot of things other than DOTA, you understand.

Anyway, just a very minor update here.
Ed Boon has announced that two characters will be released at E3, while four more characters will be revealed at this year's Comic Con.

This link is supposed to give some insight into that, but I can't access it from here. I'll look at it later:
http://www.gametrailers.com/gametrailerstv_player.php?ep=26&ch=2&sd=0

scaR
07-11-2008, 02:48 PM
This very far off from a comparison with DotA. I could say that an events list on a video gaming site should have more than playing card games but that would be an awful thing to say. Especially considering that it is the most active event list seen there in years. The events are very well participated in and something to be proud of. You put in efforts into things you like, so do I. We don't have to like what the other person does but we can respect it.

You are of course free to keep posting the info, and I am the one that approved the last nine posts you made in this thread. My comment was just an observation of something I was not sure you noticed.

Paradoxxx
07-11-2008, 03:47 PM
Be that as it may, I still think you guys have a right to know what's the haps with this game. After all, the gaming scene encompasses a lot of things other than DOTA, you understand.Funny enough there are two COD4 tourney announcements on the site (not TG affiliated) and our main event on the 16th and 17th is NOT centered around Dota. Not to mention the plans we have after Gamers Launch. Lemme see your roster... oh shux

Covered their eyes the Nijelian has.

New Era Outlaw
07-12-2008, 07:44 PM
According to Gamespot, two new characters have been confirmed for the crossover, Captain Marvel and Liu Kang (Who didn't see that one coming?)

You can read the Gamespot article here. (http://e3.gamespot.com/story.html?sid=6193708&pid=943567)


Also, a new gameplay trailer has hit the airwaves.
View it here. (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/mortalkombat/media.html)

New Era Outlaw
07-26-2008, 08:34 AM
Anyway....since I didn't get a chance to do so, I'm going to squeeze in as many updates as possible in this post, since a lot went on since I was last here.

First things first, we've already established the fact that Liu Kang and Captain Marvel (SHAZAM!) are going to be in this game. Here are the renders for those characters:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5592/image17ka4.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image17ka4.jpg)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4003/image16jj5.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image16jj5.jpg)



IGN has also released a new gameplay video, which you can see here:
http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/893/893888p1.html


Also, fellow MK creator John Tobias (he's baaaaaack) is going to create a special edition comic book for the game, (however, it's only available in the special edition versions, so snap up a copy while you can.)


ALSO CONFIRMED:

- New Arena: Superman's Fortress of Solitude.
- New Characters: Jax, Kitana, Green Lantern and....








http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2931/image19cu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

WHY SO SERIOUS?










In unrelated news:


Mortal Kombat: Kollection Announced
Posted On: Jul 26 2008, 12:25 AM

Midway has announced today the release of Mortal Kombat: Kollection for PlayStation 2:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4519/image18tt0.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image18tt0.jpg)


CHICAGO - July 25, 2008 – Midway Games Inc. (NYSE: MWY), a leading interactive entertainment industry publisher and developer, today announced Mortal Kombat®: Kollection™, a special collector's edition box set that combines three of the most recent Mortal Kombat releases from the award-winning, and Midway's best-selling video game fighting franchise into one explosive package.

Exclusively for the PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system, Mortal Kombat: Kollection features Mortal Kombat: Deception®, Mortal Kombat: Armageddon®, and Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks®. Packing more punch, fatalities and characters into one box than ever before, Mortal Kombat: Kollection is expected to be available this September for a U.S. MSRP of $29.99, just in time for players to refine their skills before the scheduled release of the highly anticipated Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe this holiday season.

"Mortal Kombat has been a pinnacle fighting franchise for well over a decade now and this is an ideal package for fans and collectors in terms of content and price point," said Mona Hamilton, vice president of marketing, Midway Home Entertainment. "With the PlayStation®2 still holding the highest market share of any home console, we saw this as the perfect opportunity to offer an incredible value to our consumers as we ramp up for the highly anticipated launch of Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe."




Also, for those of you who were hoping for a brand new MK (sans the superheroes), you have some good news here:



Mortal Kombat 9 Planned As A Mature Return To Form
Posted On: Jul 26 2008, 12:20 AM

Kotaku has reported that there are already plans for Mortal Kombat 9:

While that grittier, darker version of MK didn't make it far beyond the technology development stages — Boon told us there was little in the way of concept art for the grimier spin on the series — the next next Mortal Kombat may strive for more blood, more violence, more of everything that warrants an M-rating.

The artistic vision of a less saturated, less Superman filled fighter is still swimming around Boon's head, a title that may rest on the success of MK vs. DC. We spent more time with the crossover fighter tonight and talked with Boon about plenty of other MK-related topics. Tune in tomorrow for the rest of our conversation.



Source: http://www.mksecrets.net/indexeng.php

New Era Outlaw
09-11-2008, 09:04 PM
Here's a render of Deathstroke.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/299/image07zm6.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image07zm6.jpg)

Also, the final roster has been announced with the inclusion of Lex Luthor, Shao Kahn, Baraka, and, of course, DARKSEID.

So, as it stands, here's the final roster:

Mortal Kombat

- Scorpion
- Sub-Zero
- Sonya
- Jax
- Shang Tsung
- Liu Kang
- Raiden
- Kitana
- Kano
- Baraka
- Shao Kahn

DC Universe

- Batman
- Superman
- Catwoman
- Green Lantern
- The Joker
- Shazam
- The Flash
- Wonder Woman
- Deathstroke
- Lex Luthor
- Darkseid



God, YES. Baraka survived ARMAGEDDON. Now I'll chop Superman into sushi and-



There's hardly any blood and gore in the game, you IDIOT.


......I DON'T CARE, BARAKA RULES, SHUT UP. >=(

Dn2
09-11-2008, 09:10 PM
sorry...but this game is...going...to...be...total...baaaaallz

but i could be wrong...

maybe...

its more like mortal kombat...with dc characters in it...

New Era Outlaw
10-15-2008, 03:18 AM
John Tobias Interview: DarkKahn, Movie, Captures, Wallpapers
Posted On: Oct 15 2008, 12:53 AM

Midway has just provided us with a video Interview with Mortal Kombat co-creator John Tobias. In this video he gives us a lot of details about his work on the Mortal Kombat VS. DC Universe comic book. We also have the chance to see the Shao Kahn/Darkseid character, currently called by the fans just Dark Seid. In this video you will also see Johnny Cage, Goro, Robin, Aquaman, Mileena, Jade and Tanya who may all appear in Story Mode.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqQVruPBZts&eurl=http://www.mksecrets.net/indexeng.php




Source: http://www.mksecrets.net/indexeng.php
(Go there to see the wallpapers and the screenshots)


So....apparently, the final boss is going to be a fusion of Shao Kahn and Darkseid. (http://www.mksecrets.net/images/newsarchive/2008/october/image44.jpg)
Hm. Well, works for me, I guess.

Geese
11-16-2008, 09:15 PM
after playing this yesterday for a while and a little this morning, I can safely say this game is ass....seriously midway make another god damn shaolin monks style game plz.

kayode
11-16-2008, 09:48 PM
another god damn shaolin monks style game plz.

Yes thanks.

Xecutiona
11-16-2008, 10:13 PM
who here has ever played wu tang shaoiln style? baww

Geese
11-16-2008, 10:16 PM
u mean "thrill kill" with wu tang skins :P

New Era Outlaw
11-17-2008, 01:38 PM
after playing this yesterday for a while and a little this morning, I can safely say this game is ass....seriously midway make another god damn shaolin monks style game plz.

You managed to get your hands on a copy already? Damn. I'm seriously slow on the uptake.