Help On Building A Decent System

[bounty_killa]

i don't know a lot of stuff about building pcs and such, and i finally convinced my parents to help me out, thought they're being a bit tight on d wallet.

neways, i want to have a pc built around a Nvidia video card in the latest series and a processor like 3 Ghz and up. (that should be able to run COD4 right?)

so basically, i want to build a computer around these parts. if i'm going on the wrong path, feel free to give me your opinion. plz make sure all parts suggested are compatible and shit...:confused:

I'm willing to spend around $3000. I already have RAM.

[kaizen]

1. What type of ram and how much do you have?.

after that we can work with you on the build.

[ecktt]

3Gs and you want a real processor over 3.0GHZ. Dude that's not going to happen unless the man selling you the computer ripping you off. Now that's a pretty effed up budget you gave us to work with so i am going to assume you have the following parts to migrate with.

Keyboard
Mouse
Monitor
IDE Hard disk
IDE DVD rom
Case.

If that is the case, I'd go with the following:
4GB DDR2 PC6400 DUAL A-DATA (http://shop3.outpost.com/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&query_string=A-data+4GB&cat=&submit.x=0&submit.y=0)- 70
Intel Pentium E2180 Allendale 2.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116052)- 83
ABIT IP35-E LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127031)- 90
SILVERSTONE ST50F ATX12V 500W Power Supply - 70 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256037)
Apollo XHD3850PG3-E3R Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - 175 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814140086)

Now daz around 3100 and it doh even include shipping which might jam u for a next 500 or so.
You could prob. shave a 30 usd off the price of everything but it would not be worth it.

[bounty_killa]

I said the RAM was negligible cause I was getting like 4 gigs for 500 TTD(so ignore it). Anyways, I was only interested in building a CPU, cause I have a new LCD monitor and the rest of shit like the keyboard etc could be used again.

P.S What's a dual-core processor...does it run twice as fast as a normal one?

[ecktt]

A dual core processor is a single chip that has 2 independent processors on it. This allow you to multitask faster or if program can use both core at the same time - run program anywhere from 10-90% faster (30% being typical)

[bounty_killa]

lord, so is a 2.0 Ghz processor i goin and have to run with? but dat aint go run toots. best i save ah extra grand and buy a good 1.

[phoenix31tt]

your dual core 2.0 processore will beat back any standard pentium 4 3.0 proc...
ecktt prolly listed the best parts for your current budget so look into them

[ecktt]

If yuh really dat strapped for cash
Foxconn 8600GTS-256 GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814186022)

But the 3850 go beat it going and comming.

Interestingly
XFX PVT88SFDD4 GeForce 8800GS 384MB 192-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - 170usd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150276)
recently showed up on the market and beat the ATi 3850 going and coming for less money.
The lower clocked version
XFX PVT88SFDF4 GeForce 8800GS 384MB 192-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - 160usd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150275)
pretty much equals the performance of the ATi3850.

[SPK]

This guy is clearly a product of advertising by CPU manufacturers, which push bigger numbers more than anything else.

It's kinda like buying a set of speakers... you may see a set of Nippon America speakers @ 1000W, and a Pioneer set @ 400W, and chances are that the NA speakers would be blown out of the water.

There's more to CPU capability than raw frequency.

For example, my current system has a 'lowly' 2.4 GHz CPU, and it performs MILES better than other 3.0 GHz P4 CPUs etc....

As for the parts listed, you're gonna be hard-pressed to find a better configuration for the price than what was listed there by Ecktt.

[bounty_killa]

This guy is clearly a product of advertising by CPU manufacturers, which push bigger numbers more than anything else.

It's kinda like buying a set of speakers... you may see a set of Nippon America speakers @ 1000W, and a Pioneer set @ 400W, and chances are that the NA speakers would be blown out of the water.

There's more to CPU capability than raw frequency.

For example, my current system has a 'lowly' 2.4 GHz CPU, and it performs MILES better than other 3.0 GHz P4 CPUs etc....

As for the parts listed, you're gonna be hard-pressed to find a better configuration for the price than what was listed there by Ecktt.

yeah, i don't know a lot of computers. i'm new to this.

[mojo]

OK so u need to be wary of the ppl you take technical advice from. There are many uneducated persons working in the computer sales/service industry and there are always those who just want to mislead you into making them rich.

It is always good to get multiple opinions (like what is happening here) when you yourself do not totally comprehend the technology involved in computers today(again nothing to be down about only a few ppl in the world know...)

From what I've read, the guys here seem to be pointing you in the right direction. Forget about MHz and GHz. There are many other factors involved in determining CPU performance!

[ecktt]

...It is always good to get multiple opinions...

Excellent advice.

[bounty_killa]

To make a long story short, I was supposed to go to Costa Rica on a trip with d Spanish class but I ain't goin again, so they agree to put up with me for d new PC.

So I have an extra $3000. I was trying to modify what ecktt put up but I think I was making some shitty choices so once again, alyuh fellas jus give me some advice. By d way, how long parts does take 2 ship from d States?

[razr_x]

what kind of gaming performance are u looking for, casual gaming or hardcore?

[ecktt]

Change the Video card to NVidia 8800GT512(200usd) or if things tight, Nvidia 9600GT512(150usd)

Get any SATA Hard disk with 16MB Cache and 7200 RPM (what ever size you like)

SATA 20X DVD burner (200-300tt).

and the fastest clocked Core 2 DUO u can afford.

Personally i would also buy a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1(60usd). Games and music sound noticeably better than on board sound. Games also run faster.

[bounty_killa]

thanks ekctt. I'm gonna give the build you recommended to the guy tomorrow for a price.

p.s it's for...hardcore gaming and porn

[razr_x]

if u want to do hard core gaming i'd recommend going AMD dual core 6000+ if u can afford it (last time i checked it was like $1200TT) but AMD is the way to go for hard gaming.

[razr_x]

Change the Video card to NVidia 8800GT512(200usd) or if things tight, Nvidia 9600GT512(150usd)

Get any SATA Hard disk with 16MB Cache and 7200 RPM (what ever size you like)

SATA 20X DVD burner (200-300tt).

and the fastest clocked Core 2 DUO u can afford.

Personally i would also buy a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1(60usd). Games and music sound noticeably better than on board sound. Games also run faster.

core 2 duo? c'mon man AMD dual or FX:D

[phoenix31tt]

core 2 duo? c'mon man AMD dual or FX:D

rofl... which century u livin in?

[razr_x]

rofl... which century u livin in?

the one were AMD lives on!

AMD Phenom 9500 2.2GHz Socket AM2+ 95W
Patriot Viper 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel
Dual XFX GeForce 9600GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0SLI
Seagate Barracuda 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s
LITE-ON 12X DVD-ROM 32X CD-ROM SATA DVD-ROM
Creative 7.1 Channels 24-bit Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer

[ecktt]

*cough*TLB errata*cough*

[bounty_killa]

Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 Conroe 2.33GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor

What you guys think of it? Also most ppl don't have d A-bit motherboard, so I was hoping for an Asus or MSI equivalent..

edit:wait, what about this MSI P6N SLI Platinum LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard

[DGF]

edit:wait, what about this MSI P6N SLI Platinum LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard

Nice choice for:
- Budget
- Fluid Performance
- Headroom for O/C (overclocking)

Its a strong choice for those who are a bit tight on cash. Especially after blowing half your expenses on the processor. ;)

But for your 3g's.. TT... Look at the following configuration
AMD 5000+ (or higher if u could) - 950-1300 TT
Geforce 8500GT-MSI- 600 TT
MSI k9N Platinum (AM2 ofc) - 900-1100 TT

It all depends on where u shop but also make sure u got a good case an PSU (power supply unit) which adds considerable cost to ur very tight budget. As for sound, you can stick with onboard (till u get more cash in hand)
Hope it helps some.:cool:

[bounty_killa]

Nice choice for:
- Budget
- Fluid Performance
- Headroom for O/C (overclocking)

Its a strong choice for those who are a bit tight on cash. Especially after blowing half your expenses on the processor. ;)

But for your 3g's.. TT... Look at the following configuration
AMD 5000+ (or higher if u could) - 950-1300 TT
Geforce 8500GT-MSI- 600 TT
MSI k9N Platinum (AM2 ofc) - 900-1100 TT

It all depends on where u shop but also make sure u got a good case an PSU (power supply unit) which adds considerable cost to ur very tight budget. As for sound, you can stick with onboard (till u get more cash in hand)
Hope it helps some.:cool:

No it's 6g's now man. I already have a list of parts tho, my dad is gonna check his friend for more info. as somebody said, always good 2 have another choice..

[DGF]

WOOT @ 6g's.. ok well GG.. intel ftw ! :)

[ecktt]

I avoid none Intel Chip sets like the plague.
MSI P35 Neo2-FR/FIR

[kayode]

p.s it's for...hardcore gaming and porn

Hadda respect de honesty.:D

[gambitt]

Ars Technica System Guide: Spring forward and build a new, badass rig


The God Box: Total price: $13,328.26 US, not including shipping and handling (3/23/2008, no OS) (http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200803.ars/4) :eek:

The Hot Rod: Total price: $1,581.49 US, not including shipping and handling (3/23/2008, no OS) (http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200803.ars/3) :(

Total price: $831.78 US, not including shipping and handling (3/23/2008, no OS) (http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200803.ars/2) :)

[LARUTO]

i was wondering about the OS question, would it be advisable for a gamer going after a new pc to go with windows xp or Vista?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2552182&CatId=306

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2864281&CatId=306

[ecktt]

Short answer : Vista

[LARUTO]

i have enough time for the long answer, lol

[ecktt]

From a gamers perspective:
DX10 -yes some game look much better with it
Better networking stack - lower pings
Better hardware utilization of modern computers - won't let memory sit idle
Stricter hardware abstraction and enforcement - different driver model and HAL translates to more stable environment.
Easier 64bit adoption

[Xecutiona]

Stable? hmm das y my NEW beast of a laptop does freeze on msn, hang up on windows media player and ive gotten 3 "blue screens" already....for typing in WORD!!!

maybe its more stable....than windows 98 (or ME)

[kaizen]

Stable? hmm das y my NEW beast of a laptop does freeze on msn, hang up on windows media player and ive gotten 3 "blue screens" already....for typing in WORD!!!

maybe its more stable....than windows 98 (or ME)

never happened on my laptop only had an issue with games freezing but driver updates fixed it. You might wanna update vista/drivers etc.

[bounty_killa]

So why are we going Intel again? i don't know how to overclock by d way.

[scaR]

Stick to ecktt's advice on parts. Make up your own mind on the Vista.

[bounty_killa]

oh and the guy said he could only get some of d parts by whiz. but i hear dey rel expensive. dat true?

[eddoes]

dont listen to the guy from wiz!!! ( i find they rell expensive )
Gimme the list ah parts u need and i will give u a tally on the price.jus pm me here with the list...

[ecktt]

For the parts yuh can't get locally, pm me. I know a few people who will bring them down for a fee.

[gambitt]

On paper Ecktt's right. Vista should be the choice from here on in. It's supposed to be able to make use of more of the system resources. But from personal experiences I just dont like the OS. It's a pain.

It may work better for you.... unless you have anything using Nvidia drivers inside. 29% of Windows Vista crashes caused by NVIDIA drivers (http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/03/28/29-of-windows-vista-crashes-caused-by-nvidia-drivers/). Or microsoft drivers (together with nvidia they account for over 45% of logged vista crashes)... or ATI drivers, or intel drivers, or electricity or magical pixie-dust or unicorn farts...

[LARUTO]

Ok i understand where Ecktt is coming from, and at the same time i'm not going to be ignorant toward gambitt's comments....
How about (just a crazy suggestion) a bootleg XP for now until Vista has a service pack released for it?

[ecktt]

I eh go lie
I think i'm real lucky with vista.
but
as i said before.
everyone (with the exception of Archvile who's machine on life support all now XD) I installed vista (32 and 64) on, is loving it. Once you get used to the search index function, there is no going back.

FYI
SP1 for vista is out.
The Geeks among us would know that Server 2008 is also out and for some strange reason runs 11-19% faster than Vista EVEN THOUGH IT SHARES THE SAME CODE BASE! That goes to show that there is some tuning that still need to be done to Vista but the performance numbers are hear to prove it.

BTW
11-18% performance jump = better than XP/2k3 performance

[gambitt]

Ok i understand where Ecktt is coming from, and at the same time i'm not going to be ignorant toward gambitt's comments....
How about (just a crazy suggestion) a bootleg XP for now until Vista has a service pack released for it?

Not so crazy, I'd have suggested Dual booting them (http://apcmag.com/how_to_dual_boot_vista_and_xp_with_vista_installed _first__the_stepbystep_guide.htm) or even Vista and XP and Linux for the masochists amongst us. (http://lifehacker.com/software/ubuntu/hack-attack-how-to-tripleboot-windows-xp-vista-and-ubuntu-193474.php)

But frankly I think it's just a hassle especially when you might get rid of it in a few months anyways. This current machine has XP and Ubuntu ultimate on it. I don't use the ubuntu very often, just when I'm bored and feel like playing with the cube-looking multi-desktop thingy. If I took off the Ubuntu tomorrow, I'd probably think "cool more space for pron".

I'm biased against Vista. I know that, and it's my personal experience. I accept that. I also mean what I said, on paper Vista should be the better choice. The only problem is that for some reason, many people dont think that it is. I can't say that you'll be one of those people. I really do hope that you'll have a great experience like Ecktt and others like him if you go with it.

It's supposed to be more stable. It's supposed to be faster and able to wring every last erg from the system it's on. It's supposed to be prettier on the eyes too. As Ecktt said, the SP is out, from valid sources too, so that may solve all the problems, but I doubt it.

The only bad things that I really have to say about vista is that the times I've used it (on several laptops) more often than not, it left me wanting to pull my hair out and cursing whoever came up with the blasted popups asking me if I wanted to do what I've been trying to get the blasted thing to do for the last 20 times I tried to get it to do it. And not nice curses like about people mother either, but bad, dark curses about fleas and pestilence from wild desert camels infesting their nether regions and biting them every time the dreaded popups arose on a computer around the world. :mad: I just couldnt get it to do what I wanted it to do in the way I wanted it to do it. I dislike being told that software that works fine on an older OS will not work with the newer version. I dislike being told that a piece of perfectly functional hardware cannot be used just because of the OS I choose to use it with.

I'd say if you doh mind wasting a few days of your life, try the Vista first and see if it works for you, if not, downgrade to XP. If you do mind wasting a few days of your life, dual boot it, so when Vista play the fool you can switch over to XP and get on with what is important in life, like pron. If you doh want anything at all to interrupt the slow slide into eventual blindness and hairy palms that is pron, use XP from the start.

[archvile]

vista was ok, jus it doh support sound blaster live so :(

[phoenix31tt]

How about (just a crazy suggestion) a bootleg XP for now until Vista has a service pack released for it?

agreed... except dont say sp1 for vista... instead say: until vista is stable...

i havent tested vista with sp1 yet...

[LARUTO]

ok so i get where you guys all coming from, but what's that about no support for Sound Blaster live? Cuz that's the first name that came to mind when i thought about a sound card.

[archvile]

SBL series discontinued, u doh even get support rreally so much for it anymore, cuz audigy etc cheap now

[gambitt]

ok so i get where you guys all coming from, but what's that about no support for Sound Blaster live? Cuz that's the first name that came to mind when i thought about a sound card.

Yuh might want to rethink that.

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332

This is an interesting tale of an individual who has made up drivers for creative labs products. His work allowed a certain level of functionality, where they were unable/unwilling to provide it.

There was a bit of a problem because he asked for donations. And as far as I can understand it he's right to ask. CL turned around and charged vista people money for new and updated drivers for a while, to get the product they'd already paid for to work the way it was supposed to (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/highway-robbery/creative-charging-10-to-restore-eax-effects-in-vista-275534.php). This guy wasnt charging anyone, he was putting in work getting results and asked people for donations.

That may have been wrong of him, but it got worse. It seems that his work was actually allowing some sound cards to make use of features that they weren't supposed to be able to use. Stuff not included by the manufacturers. CL turns around and says that that's infringing on their intellectual properties and basically asks the man to FOAD.

Basically he was getting their stuff to work better than they had, giving users the functionality promised but not delivered, and giving users features that they wanted that could have crimped sales of new hardware (because the old hardware was working, the way it should have in the first place).

Their forum has been taking a hammering. Lots of folks saying they gonna boycott CL products, even a post from someone called "newegg" sporting a newegg email saying that come tomorrow they going to cease sales of some CL hardware in order to investigate the numerous complaints and returns they been getting.

One way or another Phil O'Shaughnessy VP Corporate Communications (http://us.creative.com/corporate/pressroom/contact/) is going to have a hell of a lot of stuff to answer for on Monday.

I was thinking about posting something up in the tech news board, but then I'd have to wait for it to be approved and sometimes that does take a while. 'Sides I not artistically inclined with the images and ting. :o

[ecktt]

Creative drivers are shaky.....period. But compared against Realtek, Via and ADI, they're pretty decent. On Vista 32 I used an Audigy and an Audigy 2. I have setup systems with a SB Live. I am Currently running a SB XFi eXtreamGamer. The issue Arch had was wired at best but then again Vista on his PC was like pulling teeth.

I had minimal problems. EAX was no longer supported with Audigy line of cards but there is a work around for it. The XFi line of cards are full supported. There was a issue with Vista 64 and computers with more than 3gb of ram but Creative eventually (after 11 months) solved it. Thats not so bad since my TV card and few other devices still have >3BG RAM driver issues. Over all the Creative line of sound cards still rock imho. If some one has to bash them for poor drivers, then they would have to bash the on-bard drivers for Realtek and ADI audio solution (never messed with a VIA solution with more than 2GB of ram). To date, I have friend who can't get 5.1 sound out of his on-board Realtek sound card under Vista 64 and 6GB of ram. My ADI on-board solution also has problems with 8GB of ram.

As for charging for drivers. Thats a matter of opinion. To me, Creative is right in charging for the drivers but >10USD is to high a price. Product support has a life span. Eventually manufactures stop producing drivers. Creative is extending the support for a fee.

If people think on-board sound is sufficient, I suggest you do a side by side comparison. Since what you determine to sound good is very subjective you might have a different opinion than me.

Edit:
I think Sound cards can take up a whole thread by itself.
Just read up on the Driver hacking thing. It's really low of Creative to do what they are doing. This dude has done what PAX couldn't. Props to him. I agree with the part about the licensing with the IP from creative though. I think a lot of pre-XFi people should be going here (http://hosted.filefront.com/braziliantech/).

[gambitt]

As for charging for drivers. Thats a matter of opinion. To me, Creative is right in charging for the drivers but >10USD is to high a price. Product support has a life span. Eventually manufactures stop producing drivers. Creative is extending the support for a fee.


The way I understand it they justified the charge for the Audigy 2 by saying that it required a full rewrite and a lot of man hours and etc. etc. etc.. The workaround, as I understand it required a modification to the version check in the free X-Fi vista package, allowing it to work for the Audigy cards.

Those Audigy cards are still available for sale, how is it that the customer support has already ceased to exist? If you buy something and it's supposed to be vista compatible do you expect to turn around and pay another 10 US to get it to work with vista? Do you expect to get it to run with the features advertised on the box or only the ones the manufacturers feel like including?

[ecktt]

Its like this; I can buy a brand new Matrox Mystic video card still. Am i going to get drivers for Vista? Hardware availability typical out lasts support. It's the industry standard to cut support for products even if they use universal driver type architecture. Nvidia and Ati are 2 prime examples of this. You can mod the inf to get an unsupported card working with the newer driver but now u have a situation where the manufacturer did not test the card-driver combo and is unable to support it.

[gambitt]

I hear everyting you saying and I agree with you up to a point. The point is where the creative website is offering Audigy cards, lists them as in stock and available for shipment, lists Vista/XP/2000 as the requirements.

If I tell you "You know this car I'm selling you can work on the new and improved roads if you want to drive on them" and then when you find you cyah drive on the road turn around and say "Well yeah but you have to buy a tire-kit to make it work" and when you buy the kit and realise that it has disabled your aircon.... Let's just say that if you vex I'd understand why.

When Creative rewrote the drivers for its Sound Blaster Audigy series, it left off a number of features. Among these features were DVD-Audio support, DD/DTS decoding, an equalizer, CMSS2/CMSS Stereo Surround support, and THX Options. (http://www.dailytech.com/Creative+Says+Custom+Drivers+Are+Stealing+Gets+Roc ked+by+Protests/article11297.htm)

Worse when they lie and tell you that your cards CANT decode dolby digital or dts because those functions are not supported at the driver level and you switch two files from your standard card drivers for dell specific drivers and it magically works... something is very wrong. (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080331-creative-irate-after-modder-spruces-up-vista-x-fi-drivers.html)

Creative's response:
"If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make."

Translation:
"To our paying customers: FOAD"



Saying that something ancient and unsupported isnt going to work is fine, we all agree and accept. Saying that something not so ancient and supposedly supported when they sell it to you and then turning around and saying "tough luck", or "pay us more and we can make it work, but not the way we advertised it when you bought it", well that's just wrong.

[ecktt]

agreed

*cough*Quadro*cough*
*cough*FireGL*cough*

[LARUTO]

guys, what kinda of duties or taxes (if any) would one be expected to pay if they are bringing in a PC direct from a manufacturer (eg Dell) or a pc part from a E-Tailer such as Tiger Direct?

[eddoes]

from what i know is that once yuh bringing ah full pc, u pay no taxes. is just if yuh brining in pc parts yuh pay duties on dem...i tink

[kayode]

I brought in all the parts for a full PC and I paid no taxes on anything except monitor and headphones I think.

[¢³²sharpeye]

err are supertech and circuit zone good stores to buy locally from ??

[phoenix31tt]

yes i would recommend cicuit zone... dunno bout supertech doh

[!doomtack!]

I've found that supertech has some pretty decent combos at times. Their prices range more or less like other retailers in trinidad. You may also be able to find some parts that you might not find elsewhere.
Yes, i'd recommend them.

[Xecutiona]

if one was to say....buy a tower in the states, fill it up with a whole setta gfx cards and ship it down...it technically wouldnt draw duties wud it? ;)

[razr_x]

i was wondering about the OS question, would it be advisable for a gamer going after a new pc to go with windows xp or Vista?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2552182&CatId=306

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2864281&CatId=306

i'd recommend xp pro..(say for compatibility sake)

[Xecutiona]

larry...u know what i goin and tell u... SAY NO TO VISTA

its worthless

[phoenix31tt]

lol @ xec... i didnt get charged duties on any of my 8800gt's hehe...