TSTT Blink - Contract - Oh please!

[Paradoxxx]

I got a clip of the TSTT Blink contract, this section of the contract has me pissed off. Forgive me, I do not have a scanner and as a result i will type over the document.

Fair usage policy ADSL Telecommunications Services of Trinidad and Tobago Limited (TSTT).

A fair usage policy - FUP, is intended to assure that all broadband customers enjoy the same experience and have access to a quick and reliable service at all times.

A small number of customers use Peer to Peer or file sharing software, which constantly sends and receives video and other very large files, throughout the day, consuming excessive bandwidth. This type of activity can significantly reduce the speed at which other customers can access the internet during peak hours.

This fair usage policy automatically identifies the small number of extremely heavy users and manages their bandwidth only during peak hours (6pm - 11pm Monday - Sunday), to protect the service for all our other customers. Outside peak hours, the use of the Internet by these heavy users is unaffected.

This approach protects the quality of service for the vast majority of our customers when they most use the service, while at the same time allowing the extremely heavy users to continue to send and receive without restriction outside peak hours.

Actions to be taken in the event of FUP breach.

We will contact the customer by email to let them know that their usage at peak hours is excessive and is affecting other customers, for that reason we are modifying the contention rate. The email will be sent to the email address TSTT has in their records.

During peak hours, customers affected by the fair usage policy will share bandwidth with each other and will be separated from other customers. The amount of bandwidth available for affected customers to share will be at least as much as for those customers unaffected by the policy.

<< Diagram here >>

The speed affected customers experience when downloading at peak hours will therefore depend on what these customers are doing. If they are all web-browsing and reading emails, they will experience normal broadband speed. If on the other hand they are using Peer to Peer or file sharing software they will experience slow broadband speeds. Outside peak hours, no restrictions will apply.

Page 2

Other Fair Usage Policy Considerations

TSTT does not guarantee a service and/or connectivity to users of peer-to-peer or file sharing software/applications.

Customer's average usage per day shall NOT exceed 4Gb of data volume transmitted (total upload and download usage). This is to ensure that no individual hogs the bandwidth at all times. Exceeding this amount of data will be considered a breach of FUP.

average daily data usage over previous 3 days. <<tab>> <<tab>> download speed

<4GB daily <<tab>> <<tab>> Full Speed
>4GB daily <<tab>> <<tab>> Increase contention

As soon as the average over the previous 3 days falls below the threshold limits above then your speed will increase.

Customers could manage their usage simply by ensuring that any file sharing, sending and receiving of large file is done outside peak hours.
Alarming that TSTT would allow a word like 'hog' into their contract. As far as I am concerned this faxed document looks legit.

[Pweffy]

It would be nice to know details like what package does this apply to (256k - 10M I would expect would have different 'caps' but if not that would be interesting). Also, perhaps the diagram would help, but what sort of speeds can be expected in the 'peak hours' if you are indeed identified as an 'extremely heavy user' ? For example, will you get at least 1/4 your rated package speed?

Strangely enough at the end it says that you can manage your usage by using high bandwidth applications outside of the peak hours yet earlier it stated the limits would be imposed based on a daily average (over 3 days) so I would think that means , in this case, 12GB over 72 hours.

Either the contract requires further tooling, part is missing from doxxx's transcription or hard copy, or I'm missing something here.

BTW, no scanner? What that 3.2MP camera good for?

[Hidden]

I hope flow doesn't have this.

[Pweffy]

In fact if anyone is on FLOW or BLINK, if you can, it would be great if you can upload a scan of the actual contract.

[Xecutiona]

both flow and Blink gonna do this...all isps that do not own the bandwith they provide do it...Tstt buys the bandwith from a wholesaler and then uses that to provide you wht service

that FUP is relatively tame compared to what BT and SKY do over here...thats why i went with Virgin...they own their own bandwith.

once u get to using it im sure u wudnt be bothered too much...instead of those damn torrents use http- sources like rapidshare etc...alla that comes out like normal web browsing and they cant limit you on port 80 now can they?

[trinithemc]

Flow might have a similar contract but with less foolish limits.. you can cross 4GB a day running 512 K full out .
Whats the sense of paying for 2mbit if you can't use it to its fullest (22GB download a day) if you wanted?

Flow's parent company owns the ARCOS network , so much more bandwidth will be available .
I remember my brother telling me his ISP in canada had a cap as well , if you passed it they just called you to complain a bit .

Hopefully Flow will give us a sensible limit if any ,like 8-12 GB a day at least .

[Xecutiona]

virgin and all has a limit...they cut me down to 10mb when ive downloaded more than 40gb

[scaR]

Well if Flow had a limit then Kukka and Para would have hit it months ago. That's for sure! Flow does have a connections limit though. If you open up torrents too much it will affect other apps accessing the internet.

[Paradoxxx]

It would be nice to know details like what package does this apply to (256k - 10M I would expect would have different 'caps' but if not that would be interesting). Also, perhaps the diagram would help, but what sort of speeds can be expected in the 'peak hours' if you are indeed identified as an 'extremely heavy user' ? For example, will you get at least 1/4 your rated package speed?

Strangely enough at the end it says that you can manage your usage by using high bandwidth applications outside of the peak hours yet earlier it stated the limits would be imposed based on a daily average (over 3 days) so I would think that means , in this case, 12GB over 72 hours.

Either the contract requires further tooling, part is missing from doxxx's transcription or hard copy, or I'm missing something here.

BTW, no scanner? What that 3.2MP camera good for?

If you require further clarification on this section of the contract I recommend you contact TSTT and ask about their Fair Usage Policy. This was a section of the contract from a user opting for the up to 10mbit package, we both know the person (MP), you can call him for further info or clarification.

To the best of my ability I typed over the document, if a page was not faxed to me or part of the document is missing its not due to any fault of mine. legally speaking this is bad if you were to sign this document or use it in official capacity. Lets hope TSTT puts this contract or at least the Fair Usage Policy on their site.

Again with all the inconsistencies of the document I would hardly call this a contract (or part thereof). PG2 makes mention of a 4GB cap at ALL TIMES and on that page they say at the end you can manage your usage by ensuring downloads are done outside of peak hours. What is 'normal broadband speeds' ? (I know what they mean but that is an ambiguous statement).

IMO I think this contract was put together by a Technical Person who has no legal background. The person has an idea of what he/she wants to enforce but is missing the formality of a proper contract. Xecutiona, I am 2 tired to buss it down, lay it on them!!!

The quality of the text in the fax is very poor, the quality of the diagram is worse. A scan of the fax is the best that I can offer. The camera is good for taking little pictures here and there, I am satisfied with its quality for that use. For events like weddings and such I'll stick with a SLR.
___________________________

Yeah scaR, last week alone I have pulled down about 150GBs of data in about 4-5days. Imagine if I were limited to a mere 4GBs a day LOL, so much for rushing new releases.

[ecktt]

Xecutiona (http://www.trinigamers.com/forums/member.php?u=7) is absolutely right. In-fact we are getting jam all now with traffic shaping tools from the ISPs. I have an "un-capped" DSL connection here and can never quite cross 50KBps with torrents while http reaches speeds of 150KBps. Everyone I know who is on flow have never come close to their full connection capacity using torrents. Now in defence of TSTT, they are telling us up front with blink. To shoot both TSTT and Flow, as far as i am aware, current customers NEVER signed a Fair use contract.

[P30N]

Its ironic that Tstt blink ads actually encourages download of movies and by extension p2p.

[kayode]

virgin and all has a limit...they cut me down to 10mb when ive downloaded more than 40gb

It does bother me that despite facts like this, men does be bitchin and whinin about TSTT and third world status.

Complain, but doh base yuh complaints on ignorance and ole talk.

[eddoes]

we bitching casue 4MB is really not a realistic borderline for data. i mean that is both uploaded and downloaded. when i asked tstt about what exatly dsl service is, they were stomped. is like they dont have professionals working for them oh sometin. its is supposed tuh be a dedicated amount of bandwidth for each person i.e no sharing. therefore the amount that a person uses should not affect another user. So what bullshit is tstt talking about!!

[Paradoxxx]

Torrent bandwidth issues are experienced all over the world!

It is possible for an ISP to enforce restrictions which limit the download speed of torrents. I do however think the # of connections per user should be limited by the ISP to a reasonable amount, which leads (in part) to the issue of slow dloads on torrents. Another notable reason being lack of available bandwidth on the torrent itself, not necessarily because of lack of seeds/peers/DHT Nodes but as a limit on the torrent to ensure you don't take the file quickly and not seed.

We can be ignorant and ask 'why restrict ports?' acknowledge that there are consequences to other users (on the same ISP/Node), is this not in part why there are restrictions on bandwidth.

I for one did not let the inefficiencies of torrents or connection limits (if they exist) on my connection prevent me from making maximum use of my bandwidth. If you desire an internet package that is beyond your 'download reach' then re-think your options and take a smaller package. For torrent users I recommend a 2mbit down with 1mbit up to keep ratios near 1.

I really need to do up my guide to choosing the right internet package.

____________________________

I embrace the fact that right now (even this 6mbit package I got) is better or competes well against internet packages in the states/canada. We have 2mbits Upload in TnT, thats something the foreign countries don't give out often.

[mchiefff101]

Well meh,i cah wait till blink comes out to st augustine cuz im gonna get it for sure...this 256k dsl rel messing up...pinging up to 300 ping for the last few days..reallly gay
i couldn't even play a cal match in peace :(

[Xecutiona]

lol u playin cal?

[kayode]

we bitching casue 4MB is really not a realistic borderline for data. i mean that is both uploaded and downloaded. when i asked tstt about what exatly dsl service is, they were stomped. is like they dont have professionals working for them oh sometin. its is supposed tuh be a dedicated amount of bandwidth for each person i.e no sharing. therefore the amount that a person uses should not affect another user. So what bullshit is tstt talking about!!

I not saying that people can't complain, brother. It worth complaining about.

What botherin me is the way people makin it look like if it's a issue that's specific to TSTT or to Trinidad because of third world status.

We have men in this very thread saying that huge multi-billion dollar corporations and ISPs in the States do the same thing.

Is something I seein for a while now. People will bitch and moan and whine about something TSTT does, and go on and on and on about third world status for pages in a thread...

...and then somebody will point out that what they complainin about is common in the States and the UK.

And I eh sayin TSTT great or that Trinidad developed. I just doh understand where all this third world gum-bumpin does come from.

[Xecutiona]

its a mentality we have kayode, the same way we have a habit for settling with mediocrity and in the end say "Iz trinidad, what yuh expect"...if you know how much i hate that statement.

[gambitt]

This fair usage policy automatically identifies the small number of extremely heavy users and manages their bandwidth only during peak hours (6pm - 11pm Monday - Sunday), to protect the service for all our other customers. Outside peak hours, the use of the Internet by these heavy users is unaffected.


Customer's average usage per day shall NOT exceed 4Gb of data volume transmitted (total upload and download usage). This is to ensure that no individual hogs the bandwidth at all times. Exceeding this amount of data will be considered a breach of FUP.

I was never good at math but this is what it sounds like to me:

They say they limiting folks for 5 hours.

2Mb download connection = 256KB per second maximum.
256KB * 3600 / 1024 = 900 MB per hour maximum.
900 MB * (24 - 5) / 1024 = 16 GB per maximum during unthrottled 19 hour per day


Sounds to me like I can obey the FUP and download less than an average of 4GB per day every day and not worry about throttling or download a theoretical 16 GB per day and surf the web at reasonable speeds for the remaining 5 hours (which is when I'd most probably do my surfing anyways) and still not worry about throttling.

What am I missing? :confused:

[Hidden]

So this 4gb averageper day is calculated how? Weekly?Monthly?

eg: If I use no BW monday-thursday,and then make up for it on the weekend?

[exterminatus]

Yeah scaR, last week alone I have pulled down about 150GBs of data in about 4-5days.

thats alot of porn

[ecktt]

Seems to me gambitt (http://www.trinigamers.com/forums/member.php?u=651) is right. Blaze a trail of downloads during the 19hours. Take a Bandwidth cap during peak hours in which case, 3 scenarios are possible.


They limit your download only : daz okay, cause peek time is my online gaming time in which doesn't require much bandwidth but prefers low latency.
They cap up and download : that would be annal but who every said TSTT was not. Would just affect my hosting ability.
They throttle my speed to control bandwidth : That would down right suck cause its the speed that give low ping.

[P30N]

Is it just me that thinks the only real issue is if they can legally do this or not, ie is it stated/allowed in the contract you sign.

If it is in the contract then you have no right to bitch.

If the contract says you supposed to get x amount of bw then x is what you supposed to get no matter what activity (unless other rules are mentioned in the contract).

Before you sign the contract get all your facts straight on what the contract allows and doesn't allow for.

Find out if they can legally block ports / throttle types of traffic etc as strictly stated in the contract.

After all facts are obtained then decide whether you can live with it or if to tell them to hymc.

[Paradoxxx]

Can someone call TSTT to find out if this 4GB cap is applied to the entire day or just during peak hours.

p3d0 is right, read the contract before signing, also get a copy for yourself.

[Silvaback]

To me it seems like BLINK bigging up the ppl who doh use dey internet as much....If you think of it they givin d ppl who not dlin noting better bandwidth an d ppl who dling lower bandwitdh DAT MAKE ANY FROCKIN SENSE??


*** Frock is a dress.

[Xecutiona]

Is it just me that thinks the only real issue is if they can legally do this or not, ie is it stated/allowed in the contract you sign.

If it is in the contract then you have no right to bitch.

If the contract says you supposed to get x amount of bw then x is what you supposed to get no matter what activity (unless other rules are mentioned in the contract).

Before you sign the contract get all your facts straight on what the contract allows and doesn't allow for.

Find out if they can legally block ports / throttle types of traffic etc as strictly stated in the contract.

After all facts are obtained then decide whether you can live with it or if to tell them to hymc.
um...in the contract states their fair use policy. as a provider they are obliged to block whatever ports they please. the mitigating factor is the internet connection...if you get one, thats what you paid for. everything else doesnt change the fact that a connection is being provided.

"tstt does not guarantee peer to peer connections"

case in point

[hackman]

sigh tstt fighting to keep there costumer how sad for them.

on hearing of blink i thought that this was my time to get DSL (FINALLY) that i forgot the kinda of service they offer before getting a little competition (FINALLY). The sight of seeing dsl for under a $100 almost made me act without thinking. Since flow came out i was not to interested even though it has been given excellent reviews this is because i thought that the prices were still a lil too high. Hmm but today as i was just about to sign up for blink when i said to mehself why give my money to ppl that was trying to rob you all these years so i decided to check out FLOW one more time and to my surprise:eek: well see for yuhself http://www.flowtrinidad.com/click/content.cfm?contentID=DEA1C8E8-A398-426F-E381B748411A5C65
(sign me up for the 2mb:D )

another reason i decided not to go blink was because d fact that my phone line is in a total mess meaning instead of 2 2 dial up i would be getting 2 2 dsl which i sure many ppl suffer from and now this contact is a next reason why i not even going to bother with blink and these are 2 of many.
i find tstt should just stop fightin it they LOSS!!!! :D simple (BEATOUT!!!!)

[ecktt]

I wouldn't say beat out....
Flow 15Mbit package is better (jah and to imagine a few months ago 512 was the bomb) but all reports suggest they are using network shaping tools 24/7! Also the inter connection thing still is not worked out (which i am sure is almost all TSTT fault). TSTT blink $80tt package is still cheaper when you consider its an unlimited package. That puts more people into the game.

[Paradoxxx]

Not to mention that TSTT has better coverage over flow! I would more than be content if TSTT can provide broadband services to the areas on their site by 1st Q 2008.

I called Flow a few nights back concerning upgrading to the 15mbit package after being informed that the upgrade has to be requested. A CSR informed me that their 'line' is not fully functional at this point in time. She further advised me to call in at the end of the month to 'try again'.

Coincidentally a friend of mine told me yesterday that ARCOS is not fully online contradicting that newspaper article we saw on the guardian. The link is in Trinidad however the task of connecting ARCOS to various FLOW services is not as easy as we may think.

The CSR also mentioned that existing customers will be paying the lower rates indicated on the FLOW website. TSTT should follow this example, many of their DSL customers are paying ~$300 for a service thats 'going to' cost $80

[phoenix31tt]

Coincidentally a friend of mine told me yesterday that ARCOS is not fully online contradicting that newspaper article we saw on the guardian. The link is in Trinidad however the task of connecting ARCOS to various FLOW services is not as easy as we may think.


i think we knew that the paper only discussed half of the process... which was gettin trinidad on the arcos network...

but as soon as its fully implemented things should be even better...

and i dont mind going with blink or flow... fact is.. i jus happy that competition has arrived and that would only lead to beter service... i dont want either company to win cuz then we'll jus end up with another monopoly ala tstt

[hackman]

I wouldn't say beat out....
Flow 15Mbit package is better (jah and to imagine a few months ago 512 was the bomb) but all reports suggest they are using network shaping tools 24/7! Also the inter connection thing still is not worked out (which i am sure is almost all TSTT fault). TSTT blink $80tt package is still cheaper when you consider its an unlimited package. That puts more people into the game.

yes ecktt all true but what i can't stand is that tstt only tring to lock you in a contract and if you don't take the contract you have too fork over 600 for d modem. i doh see flow trying those underhand tactics flow even say it yuh doh like it we will refund yuh. As para said and what i really feel is d main problem is the coverage. Although $80 256 sounds good ppl with d option of the 2 services should really think about it. To me flow have better prices than blink cause with just a $100 extra added to that same $80 you can more than triple your speed i see no loss there @ all. Phoen yuh sure right we eh want that again nah.

[P30N]

um...in the contract states their fair use policy. as a provider they are obliged to block whatever ports they please. the mitigating factor is the internet connection...if you get one, thats what you paid for. everything else doesnt change the fact that a connection is being provided.

"tstt does not guarantee peer to peer connections"

case in point

Its not about guaranteeing peer to peer speed but guaranteeing they won't purposely block any service (which your paying for) to achieve a level of service.

Its like buying a porsche but deliberately putting potholes in the roads so that not much people will try to speed down the road at full speed.

If tstt states in the contract they can and will do x then that doesn't make them any more evil. Once they tell customers up front, and customers know and understand what they paying for.

[Paradoxxx]

i think we knew that the paper only discussed half of the process... which was gettin trinidad on the arcos network...

but as soon as its fully implemented things should be even better...


Getting ARCOS to Trinidad is more than half of the process but I understand what you mean. I believe the article mentioned a time frame for implementation, 2 months was it?

[gambitt]

So one would hope. As I said, there were cable modems in T&T since the late 90s. It took us that long to figure them out to the point of offering to the public, you SURE you want to put such an optimistic spin on things?

:(

[Paradoxxx]

Of course!
Flow has more resources than the cable company of yesteryear. Our former cable company much less for the cable companies in the early days did not have the means to put in place the infrastructure that Flow (Columbus) can.

[LARUTO]

but they still do not have the resources to deliver proper customer service.

[Paradoxxx]

The issue of poor customer service is a nationwide issue, it is something that we can not single out flow for.

[phoenix31tt]

but they still do not have the resources to deliver proper customer service.

and why would u assume that flow has any less resources to deliver proper customer service? than tstt or any other local isp for that matter?...



indeed @ para... actually prolly more than a nationwide issue yes..

[Paradoxxx]

The FUP was not included in the contract for a 2mbit customer.

[phoenix31tt]

rofl

i have an update too...

spoke to a inside man in tstt...

he said no limits would be placed on user downloads....

the only thing that can affect this is the firewall which can be turned of upon request

[kayode]

Anyone confirmed this no limit thing?

Because I pulled about 9 gigs since late last night and my connection started acting funny right around 6pm...

[Paradoxxx]

define funny

[kayode]

I posted it in the other thread.

Speed was fluctuating and the signal itself was dying every now and then.

It only lasted a few hours, luckily. B about midnight it was back to normal.

[Paradoxxx]

Do you have your firewall active as phoenix discussed or have you spoken with a TSTT representative on the matter?

[ecktt]

What contract?
Vax on Blink and has not signed any contract!

[Paradoxxx]

Did he get upgraded? If so then his existing contract will now take effect for blink (which ain't proper). If not then he is a lucky dude, the website and manual sign up force you to choose at least a year long package.

BTW if you can afford it get both services (TSTT $79.00/Mth)

[kayode]

I believe it's a TSTT thing.

It's happening arbitrarily during certain times of day. In fact it was happening less than an hour ago when I got home, although it was fine for most of the day.

[Malice]

the only reason tstt has customers is cuz flow retarded and taking forever to reach the greater population

Fair usage policy ADSL Telecommunications Services of Trinidad and Tobago Limited (TSTT).

A fair usage policy - FUP, is intended to assure that all broadband customers enjoy the same experience and have access to a quick and reliable service at all times.

A small number of customers use Peer to Peer or file sharing software, which constantly sends and receives video and other very large files, throughout the day, consuming excessive bandwidth. This type of activity can significantly reduce the speed at which other customers can access the internet during peak hours.

This fair usage policy automatically identifies the small number of extremely heavy users and manages their bandwidth only during peak hours (6pm - 11pm Monday - Sunday), to protect the service for all our other customers. Outside peak hours, the use of the Internet by these heavy users is unaffected.

This approach protects the quality of service for the vast majority of our customers when they most use the service, while at the same time allowing the extremely heavy users to continue to send and receive without restriction outside peak hours.

Actions to be taken in the event of FUP breach.

We will contact the customer by email to let them know that their usage at peak hours is excessive and is affecting other customers, for that reason we are modifying the contention rate. The email will be sent to the email address TSTT has in their records.

During peak hours, customers affected by the fair usage policy will share bandwidth with each other and will be separated from other customers. The amount of bandwidth available for affected customers to share will be at least as much as for those customers unaffected by the policy.

<< Diagram here >>

The speed affected customers experience when downloading at peak hours will therefore depend on what these customers are doing. If they are all web-browsing and reading emails, they will experience normal broadband speed. If on the other hand they are using Peer to Peer or file sharing software they will experience slow broadband speeds. Outside peak hours, no restrictions will apply.

Page 2

Other Fair Usage Policy Considerations

TSTT does not guarantee a service and/or connectivity to users of peer-to-peer or file sharing software/applications.

Customer's average usage per day shall NOT exceed 4Gb of data volume transmitted (total upload and download usage). This is to ensure that no individual hogs the bandwidth at all times. Exceeding this amount of data will be considered a breach of FUP.

average daily data usage over previous 3 days. <<tab>> <<tab>> download speed

<4GB daily <<tab>> <<tab>> Full Speed
>4GB daily <<tab>> <<tab>> Increase contention

As soon as the average over the previous 3 days falls below the threshold limits above then your speed will increase.

Customers could manage their usage simply by ensuring that any file sharing, sending and receiving of large file is done outside peak hours.

And isnt adsl dedicated? meaning the bandwidth you recieve is YOURS and not shared. This is not broadband. Don't you just love the genius that is tstt <3 ^^

In essence, once you use the bandwidth you pay for, they will nerf you ZOMG THEY ARE SO AWESOME

Tstt ROXXORZ my BOXXORZ

[Geese]

...why you posting this now ? look at the date !