The dream continues to die....

[Nailes]

Abraham Lincoln once said "The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend"
I have read through all the arguments in the past few days in the laruto thread, arguments on both sides have both had their valid points and yes even misconceptions about each others organisation. Before going any further it is important at this stage, which may appear controversial to my fellow gamers, that the position I have adopted on this matter is a neutral and unbiased stance in the hopes of finding a resolution to it.

All the major posters from both organisations have pretty much said everything that has already been said in the past , in the neverending war of words between G@TT and gamers. I will only touch on the one's that I believe need some attention and will be offering my perspective on each.

The line "G@TT is mess" and the various other colorful adjectives we sometimes use to describe the organisation, while most times seemingly innocent in its intent on our side of the fence (ie when most of us say this I truly believe it is directed mostly to the head of that organisation and not its members) , on the opposite side ie G@TT, it is easy to understand how a G@TT member would look at this as an insult to himself, since any loyal member would love his organisation as passionately as we do our own. I have also been guilty of saying the same types of stereotypical comments about G@TT in the past and I freely admit while 90 percent of it is directed towards Nijelian, part of myself in saying it also is meant to classify the G@TT gamer as being inferior or noob in some way. I maybe wrong in assuming this but I think all of us here also secretly agree we maybe also guilty of this same transgression.

Old habits are hard to break, while the quality of G@TT gaming may or may not be on par with ourselves here at gamers, it does no good for the sake of "local gaming" if healthy rivalry is not the norm as per the case now , rather we find ourselves in a form of "destructive chaos" which continues to destroy us all. I have realized in the past couple of years that our gaming will never truly prosper , and our talent as a people never allowed to shine on the international stage ,if we continue to live in constant turmoil and disharmony. THE ONLY WAY FORWARD IS UNITY.

I am not going to get involved in the politics of each organisation, but I felt a need to speak a bit to rampage about his current involvement in G@TT. I read where you have defended Nijelian strongly and have suggested that many of the things said about him has been pure rumor. While some of that maybe true, I invite you if you have not already done so to read a post I made concerning the history of local gaming entitled Reflections Part One. As a man and a gamer I have always and I mean always put my honor and integrity on the line for both my fellow gamers and my country. I assure you as a man of my word and in the eyes of my creator above , that every word I wrote in that history concerning Nijelian's actions are the truth and nothing but the truth so help me god.

Ramp I am proud to see how you have grown within the G@TT organisation and I admire your love and dedication to both organisation and gaming. At the same time there is a deep sense of anger and sorrow within me when I already know what fate has written in stone for you. It is the same fate that was written to many hardworking individuals in the past: Ghost, Para, Bobo, Fallen, Loki, Gel, Kayode, Shark, Guru & the list goes on... All of this talent , that worked hard thinking their efforts were going 100 percent towards local gaming and its development, when the sad truth is it was merely funding Mr. Bellamus's ambitions. Nijelian when he is no longer in need of you or your services or when you become more of a problem than an asset will get rid of you rampage, this I assure you. The reason why I am sure of this is because of two reasons.

1. His own brother who I share a very close friendship with once asked me about friendship and why I was always willing to give yet never receive. I gave him an answer as best as I could , needless to say he went on to quote something his own brother once told him & I quote "Only have friends who can be of benefit to you in some form or fashion"

2. The other reason is Nijelian learnt a lot of his management style and leadership tactics when he was my right hand & one of the things he learnt was always rid yourself of a liability that is no longer an asset. That was meant to apply to material resources , unfortunately he has applied it with brutal efficiency to something way more sinister ... people. The list above clearly indicates this , and that is fact not rumor of people's disagreement or disenchantment with the Nijelian ideal.

I started off with a quote from Abe and I truly hope that both you and para can put differences aside and begin to realize the only way Trinidad will ever move forward in gaming is through Unity. Out of chaos came life, remember this , revolution as history has taught us can birth brilliance in free thinking progressive organisations and civilizations. Rampage you have a semblance of power within G@TT, and your intentions are noble. I think within your heart you already know also that Nijelian is more of a liability than an asset and it maybe a daunting task on the job of finding a way to not necessarily rid the organisation of him , but rather make it more of a democracy than the dictatorship like setup it currently is.

The cyber olympics which started four years ago has grown from the starting 24 countries to over 70 countries in the last four years. Trinidad continues to rot and degrade in its ambitions to be there one day because of bitter infighting and pointless destructive rivalries. It is amusing to see that countries as under developed as Vietnam are already a part of this multi billion dollar new age sport. Other countries continue to gain invaluable experience each year, while trinidad is no where near to even trying to approach the WCG council for acceptance into its fold. I can go on and on about several other things , but I think everything that can be said has probably already been by myself or someone else in the past. A wise man once said "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" I am here to tell you all today, the enemy is not each other, our enemy is the world at large. That is our stage , that is where we have to unite, that is where we must fight for country and for each other.... until we come to realize that , accept it, believe it, breathe it and truly live it hand in hand, then the dream will remain nothing more than that and continue to die....

I remain an ambassador for my country and all of my fellow gamers, and I am willing to serve or help in any way I can to get us where we rightfully should be. My people are talented and I want the world to know and to see nothing but two sweet trini words after every battle "Lixx IYMC""

Vipes
"In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends" - Martin Luther King"

[Paradoxxx]

right after I made my post eh.

I have only spoken of ramp as an individual that has the capabilities to break down the wall that is in place between gamers and G@TT. I held him in high regard and he has on more than one occasion 'rushed' me and this time I did the wrong thing and let some of my anger seep thru.

There are many posts where I outlined that Ramp has grown. His attitude towards myself in the past along with his making a big deal out of nothing got to me. I failed to realize his views and passion with respect to G@TT and the title alone must have intimidated him.

Rampage there is always hope for a friendship, Ghost and I started of as rivals nothing good to say about each other rivals to the max. Look at us now, me and ghost are nakama (friends) real boys, no one who sees us now would think that we were rivals at any point in time.

GG Ramp GG

[rampage]

boy viper i read the post you made about the history part, i gonna question him about it. but from what i seeing, on my side of the line, it look like you or someone from on your side (i talking wigc here), went on the mailing list and talk about Nijelian wife an thing and real diss him up etc. i doh know if you remember that, i know some old sweat men definitely do. so what you said in that post seem to happen the other way around oui. but i go be sure to ask him about the scene. and i know about the battle between you and shark, cant really question him about it though, i tried getting in contact with him all how, no luck immc :(

I think within your heart you already know also that Nijelian is more of a liability than an asset and it maybe a daunting task on the job of finding a way to not necessarily rid the organisation of him , but rather make it more of a democracy than the dictatorship like setup it currently is.

i done working on it, new administration an thing, trying to get the ball rolling. i wish i was in trinidad so i coulda do more of the stuff personal in their face instead of over some email or something though, but ah trying meh best on this end


Rampage there is always hope for a friendship,

i doh see you as an enemy. how much time i play game with you? how much time i call you on de phone? how much text i send to you in chat? how much of my terran firebats suicide into your base? i doh forget things that people does do, every man who help me in the past or who was a friend at some point in time i does never forget them so.

Nijelian when he is no longer in need of you or your services or when you become more of a problem than an asset will get rid of you rampage, this I assure you.

i doubt this day go ever come but i go wait and see, i understand where Nijelian does come from and i understand where others does come from, das why me and Nijelian does quarel sometimes, but thats how we does work things out too. he is only 1 man so his way may not be 100% right all de time.


Abraham Lincoln once said "The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend"

das a serious quote, but it could mean two things. one it could mean get rid of the enemy within the person and make him yuh friend or it can mean make the enemy yuh friend and when you in a position where you have an advantage, take the friend out. ever see a business that join with another business and when one side of it have a lil more power than the other it try to take the other half out ? what you saying dey is a risky kinda thing because some of the grudges that some people have burned in stone yes, tatooed on skin, carved in rock, you get de point. before that quotage can come into reality we hadda work on the personal grudges hard and strong because is that what can make the unity fall apart again.

[Ghost]

Very well written post there vipes and para sorry to say i posted with a bit of haste and with a bit of anger, but never the less i felt as if i needed to vent, for a very long time people or orgs have been held back by one person just one, to have"unity" is just about one person and moving forward !!

[Paradoxxx]

It get frustrating at times boy, 1 man holding back so much.

[CHUNKULUNKS]

My first post in this ENTIRE topic and to tell all of allyuh my opinion altho to sum it may not count as much is.....Mature up,shake hands,forgive and FORGET the things said to each other PLEASE!!! Or else all this of a "DREAM" of joining the gamers in trinidad will stay just that to people like me who dont have the power to pull that dream to reality.Fellas just learn to behave and keep on playing game and doh be so ruff with each other please cuz its affecting EVERYONE who wishes for better in the community of gaming as myself and the MANY MANY others who stand on the side lines.
Please fellas!PLEASE?? :mellow: :(

[rumbelly]

Originally posted by Paradoxxx@Feb 17 2005, 09:33 PM
It get frustrating at times boy, 1 man holding back so much.
Quoted post



i could not have said it better myself
if u din say it i was not gonna post it ..

*sigh*

and nailes !!

i aint agree with yuh topic name dred .... i wont say the dream continues to die
seems more likea new beginning wont u say ?

[Nailes]

"It takes but a snowflake to start an avalanche" Well done guys a very good first step in extending an olive branch to each other. Time heals all wounds and though we all here are human and may slip from time to time, we must be mindful of our actions and words if we are truly too have "A new beginning".

From small beginnings can come great things, I truly hope that this can be the catalyst to start a healthier form of rivalry and competition among all the existing organisations in a more harmonious manner. I have an idea that may help as a pilot project of sorts to encourage a greater sense of unity and at the same time foster improved relations between us all.

TGS currently is an ambassador for our country on the international scene. currently the local membership is primarily made up of gamers people. I am willing to take 2 players from each of the other organisations ie G@TT & VGA into the TGS family. Once there they will be exposed to the resources and development plans we have in place. The two members should be the cream of the crop within their organisation in Warcraft 3 , maybe to be decided by an internal tournament or something of that nature.

The benefits of their exposure to international competition at the highest level, the ability to rub shoulders and learn from some of the best players in the world, train with them and play against them, will allow these gamers to realize their full potentials. These individual can then impart the benefit of their knowledge and experience gained to their respective organisations. This in turn over time should result in all of the orgs members being at the same level, resulting in a higher quality of player nationally. This will truly allow the most talented and gifted players among us to come of age, once their is a more consistent standard among all orgs.

The benefits as a whole in my opinion will give rise to many positive spinoffs. All three organisations will be represented within the clan and as a result foster a more nationalistic approach and sense of pride with respect to gaming. The members from all organisations that are within the clan together will be working together as a team , since tgs is built on a philosophy that encourages team spirit and hard work. The example these pioneers set, will serve as undeniable proof that YES we can work together and gamers from all organisations will aspire to represent and be among the best not just within their organisation but on a national level.

I can assure you that TGS has always represented the entire gaming community in Trinidad and consists of members from over 23 countries, it is my personal guarantee no form of organizational bias will occur. If the idea is embraced by both VGA & G@TT, the two individuals must not only be the best in their field but have a strong commitment factor , which allows them to be very active and more importantly have a good work ethic. Being at the top demands hard work and unflinching resolve, it is a given that they will also need access to BNET keys.

The idea has been thrown out , I encourage constructive dialogue among all three of the orgs concerning the pros and cons. I await your reply on the matter, the stage is now yours guys... The future of gaming lies in your ability to be men not boys....

Viper

[LARUTO]

the forst foot is fully through the door and on the ground.

[killa]

good stuff to read, good 2 see that on one side barries have be removed and is jus for the otherside to do the same
good ideas by vipes as well

[loki]

time to start back up the dreams ppl
i suggest since we have decided that all the orgs can live together
just move in that direction
have an inter-organisational meeting
to organise sweat
and large national tourneys

time of talk is ending ppl
time for action is upoun us.

[Akira]

...and, the sooner we can get everyone together and have sweats and/or tourneys, the faster we can achieve better relations, clear any misunderstandings, and game together as one.

[Paradoxxx]

Note that TGS is invite only and some of the best players from the world ask to come in. Vipers offer is MORE than generous and should be taken seriously.

I have some ideas, for a collective database of gamers, and web based methods to allow gamers to choose their 'org' and maybe some other cool features like tourney records etc. Once again if this plays through your choice of organization would allow you to roam freely amongst the organization without fear of prejudice.

So many ideas..

[eks]

Para, yuh couldn't a put it much better with 'one man holding back so much'. That sentence alone put it down straight.

Now don't get me wrong eh-G@TT is where I START. Man from St. Joseph just decide to jump in and see what he could do and I could still hold my ground today somewhat. I grateful for that at least eh, but I know I need to work on my skill a lot harder and put more bullet behind the gun.

I hoping at some point I can prob. make the rankings to at least put up an application for TGS eh but for the meanwhile, I doing like I do: plently people, plenty game, one good sweat. Play a GG with everyone and still go home happy. Foster the growth and encourage people to come back.

[Paradoxxx]

Thus far no reply from the G@TT-REP Rampage, the politics on that side prob tough.

I really hope things play out as 'we' the gamers of trinidad and tobago want.

[rampage]

allyuh jumping ahead a lil too fast, things go only fall back down again, read meh post properly:

QUOTE
Abraham Lincoln once said "The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend"


das a serious quote, but it could mean two things. one it could mean get rid of the enemy within the person and make him yuh friend or it can mean make the enemy yuh friend and when you in a position where you have an advantage, take the friend out. ever see a business that join with another business and when one side of it have a lil more power than the other it try to take the other half out ? what you saying dey is a risky kinda thing because some of the grudges that some people have burned in stone yes, tatooed on skin, carved in rock, you get de point. before that quotage can come into reality we hadda work on the personal grudges hard and strong because is that what can make the unity fall apart again.


people will carry across the same G@TT is shit mentality, and will loook down on the org and its leaders etc. hadda work on that first before unity could even be on the front of the mind. this is like signing a peace treaty while 2 miles down de road someone shoot another person. the G@TT admins, mods, etc have nothing against the people in here, but i know the people in here definitely do have something against G@TT, or at least one of its admins, after all they were banned from G@TT, so that is expected. it gonna take real forgiving and forgetting on both sides

[loki]

we already said all past instances aside if allyuh willing to move ahead with gaming unity, thats all we want. Past is past and all that is done.We are willing to swallow all our griviences and such and move foward for the unity of gaming in trinidad. Now we say we are ready and willing, the ball is in your court now. what i want to know if i go on G@TT forums, and make a challenge to any counter strike team in there to face my clan, Thats all i saying, the challenge, the rules, the place and thats it. I wanna know if my post will dissapear or if u all will find me just saying that being hostile and causing commess.
You said G@TT admin and such have no problem with us, so i now saying on Behalf of Gamers if that is the case we got no problems with you all. All left to do now if for G@TT to say they are willing to sweat amongst and against us. Thats all simple sweat. :)

regards
eX|Lokes

[Paradoxxx]

One of its admins is right!!!! I wonder who here wasnt 'banned' as a result of that one admin? From what I gather many if not all of these banned persons left and as a result they would be the ones that should have to forget the past.


We are willing to swallow all our griviences and such and move foward for the unity of gaming in trinidad

Exactly, for the record its not 'our griviences' thats hold back progress.

I know bringing back up the ghost thing maybe getting old, but after ghost and I started talking/sweating etc etc there was never a relapse of that hatred cause both of us didnt want them issues (although it was some serious stuff) to seperate gaming. Im sure you all can do that same.

Do it for the future of gaming.

[Itachi]

yeah and i mean that whole ghost and para thing had to have gotten patched up well cuz when i meet both ah dem i figured they were like best frends oui,never wuda think they were bitter rivals at a point 0_0

[killa]

well said para
we need 2 think of the bigger picutre which is where gaming in trinidad and tobago is going 2 reach
and stop looking at the small stuff



regards
boxy :)

[Paradoxxx]

From what I gather Rampage is busy and he seems to be the person pushing this idea of unity in G@TT. Rb and Laruto are admins in G@TT also, i hope they are aiding Rampage with this effort.

All I ask for is some feedback. How goes it on that front?

[TaC_Up]

Laruto is an admin :S :S

[opium]

i does wonder where these admins does come from yuh know

lol

[LARUTO]

i not in admin any more, too much work going on for me right now. i'm just a mod. will post more later, need a haircut. ^_^

[Paradoxxx]

Opium> lol, new era of G@TT, I have my own personal belief to why this was put in place.

RB is definately admin, I hope he can give some feeback.

[opium]

G@TT admins just glad i not on dey backs yes

lol :P

anyway dat was childish of me during dem times but not my fault

[Geese]

uh huh...

anyways.. i will be doing my part to get the ball rolling.

[Paradoxxx]

Any idea on how far the ball has moved from its original position?

[killa]

break bread and rejoice :)

[chineee]

heh, "Unity"....
Big word from what has happened in the past to present...

I'd say it's not easy in dese times for some ppl to give up their grudges just so..
But at the same time, I'm willing to work with anyone once there is a "CHANGE" from the past...

Common, if ppl going to be working together and have the same mentality as the past, we'll have similiar conflicts reoccurring somehow later in the future... such things has to be taken into consideration...

Yeah, reall ppl get shit up and have grudges from the past, but if some are willing to forgive? and whichever instigators they have from the past who are willing to change? then something I believe can be made with this "Unity"...

Something to think about I'd say....
As my father once told me, "Sometimes in life son, you have to be the bigger man in different situations...."
Wise words at the time I'd say that made an impact on me!

Den again, he also told meh, "A woman who can cook, is a woman to have"...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Xecutiona]

2 big bad quotes there

but i think that we are prepared to let bygones be bygones in order for advancement to take place

[chineee]

Originally posted by Xecutiona@Feb 22 2005, 07:56 PM
2 big bad quotes there

but i think that we are prepared to let bygones be bygones in order for advancement to take place
Quoted post


Heh, you can speak for your respective selves of course!
It's others who has to do the thinking...and to be willing to make the sacrifice for the cause of "Unity"...
:)

[Paradoxxx]

GAMERS has put all its problems aside its just up to G@TT has to do the same and just move on. Its alot to expect from G@TT but if they opening up as ramp claims it could happen

[chineee]

Originally posted by Paradoxxx@Feb 22 2005, 09:36 PM
GAMERS has put all its problems aside its just up to G@TT has to do the same and just move on. Its alot to expect from G@TT but if they opening up as ramp claims it could happen
Quoted post


Heh, time will tell and all will come in due time.....
Buh, "could happen" and "will happen" is a big difference too..
:)

[opium]

yeah and de biggest word to confuse me is IF

"IF" it happen

then break bread and rejoice

dat is "IF" eh

[rampage]

been super busy immc. but anyway before we go any further, i think there should be some kind of meeting of some sought, unfortunately i not in trinidad, haven't been in trinidad for almost 3yrs now so i won't be attending the meeting. there is a bit too much problems/hatred/issues etc to be handled this quickly over a forum or something. need to meet in person, and discuss the future of gaming in t&t. like vga core, gamers core, G@TT core, and whoever else wanna form a organization core, meet in one place and one time and discuss for a couple hrs what really going on, and let it all out. a grudge isn't something that could just be let go or as someone said in this post "let bygons be bygons". it doh work so nah. to let that happen you hadda meet, shake hands, discuss, and get things on de roll.

we could have done the meeting online, but then it would be better to do it face to face yes. i go ask Nijelian if he have time for a meeting an thing, he busy with work, etc. it might have an online meeting as well, so me and a few others could put in some input, because one man does dismiss people arguments, while another does look down on him and talk bout he maturity etc, all dem thing go hadda get fix yes. i've seen Nijelian dismiss people, isolate them, make them seem like the enemy etc...but is not Nijelian alone i see do that, it was done in this post too. to be talking to fellow gamers like that and thing when they bringing up an argument or something aint too right, so there is definitely gonna be a lot to talk about because Nijelian have done it to some of you etc, so go hadda work something out from there. when is a good time for a meeting with allyuh? i go see if he could push some things aside and make some time. it go be a big meeting though, so is real people who have to have free time on the same day or something. hopefully at the end of the meeting is either unity or things go back to how it is now but hopefully no more hating and looking down on other gaming orgs.

[TaC_Up]

serious post there boy ramp....
*TaC_Up would like to spectate in this meeting..

[loki]

one thing abt this meeting that has to be understood is that nijelian in that meeting does not have a higher seating than any other mmber in any organisation. we are all going to be there on equal terms, the only person i could see that any of us has to look up too is Viper, thats it :)

[Itachi]

hmm @ meeting,i wud also like to spectate boy tac,all these rumours i hearin abt how the core meetings are and how they have bad blood and such,i want to bear witness so i can for myself decide if pushing local gaming foward makes sense or not..........well to me that is,if it's just a waste of MY time,i would give up,because gaming is not my ONLY interest

[LARUTO]

when and where?

[Paradoxxx]

I got news that rampage wanted to contact me to arrange a meeting. I was at work during the time.

Both Online and Offline have their pros/cons

Online = easier to schedule, easier to log, easier to cuss ah man then ignore him,
Person = better for the relational problems that are present between Nijelian and various members but hard to get a mutual meeting time.

I would prefer the in person meeting but with work and java exp things tight.

With respect to Obsing the meeting, that could lead to the OBS coming out and talking and cause rukus etc etc I think if we have it online we could log and post on the site??


>>>>>>>
We need to outline what pts are going to be discussed at this meeting and how many reps from each or should be allowed in.

Topic> Inter Politcal Relations and a no Prejudice act.

Topic> 'Wild men' The organizations can not be responsible for the action of their members @ all times. The action of 1 does not reflect the action of the org and in this case how this should be dealt with

Topic> Acceptable forms of Game talk with respect to Org Vs Org, this happens all the time, ppl play other ppl and to spice things up you say 'hoss your game weak' this will trickle to the ORGs im sure. We need to devise a std of whats NOT acceptable while allowing some room for the usual jargon

'W<insert your org here> HB' allowed
'G@TT is SHIT' NOT allowed

Feel free to add to the topics.


4 Reps per org sounds about right.

[LARUTO]

personally i would like to see more inter org tourneys, maybe a huge tourney of sorts where all orgs are represented.

[Itachi]

that soundin like a nice scene boy para,but also don't you think we shud find a way so that the members of the org wud choose which 4 core members represent them ? or even let the privaleged members (mods and admin) choose which members attend ?

[rumbelly]

Originally posted by Itachi@Mar 2 2005, 01:10 PM
that soundin like a nice scene boy para,but also don't you think we shud find a way so that the members of the org wud choose which 4 core members represent them ? or even let the privaleged members (mods and admin) choose which members attend ?
Quoted post



hmmmmm

idea - maybe we could have 2 admin chosen reps and 2 member chosen reps

[Paradoxxx]

Good idea rum.

[Itachi]

yeah that soundin even better so that way both levels of the org gets represented

[rampage]

well the meeting can be online and be public, i.e anyone can join the channel, see, discuss and make some input. this go handle at least the competition part between the orgs etc, but the most important part i think is the relations between the leaders(core) of the orgs. that part should be handled face to face, when Nijelian in the meeting he gonna have a lot to say, A LOT, so many rumours certain people spreading about him etc, lawdey, too bad i won't be there yes. viper go hadda be dey too, because he and Nijelian got some things to take care of as well, things that been going on for yrs upon yrs oui. about time that it gets settled.

Topic> 'Wild men' The organizations can not be responsible for the action of their members @ all times. The action of 1 does not reflect the action of the org and in this case how this should be dealt with

yeah thats a nice topic, especially when some of the wild men are at the organizations core level....should be interesting. the main topic i think is the communication and thing between the leaders of each org and how they talk to and about each other. in any rivalry most of the time is just so few people that causing all the confusion i think, they the source of the problem, and the members just follow along with it, not really questioning their actions or when their actions are questioned, their arguments are dismissed, they may be alienated etc. i think is the leaders is where the problem is. most of the others just want to play game and have fun, but the leaders may have grudges an thing against each other. this should probably be done face to face, i mehself got a lot of stuff to say regarding this, got many examples as well to put forward, so we may have to have an offline+online meeting.

some members care about each org, and they may want to take part in the meeting, but too many people talking at the same time won't do much good. perhaps moderating the channel and voicing the orgs different representatives may be a good idea, but allowing them to view the convo and they could easily pm the representatives with anything they want to put forward. i done see one man say everyone equal and only man we should look up to is viper yes. that man gonna be in the meeting ? because if he saying something like that then he probably go be backing viper all the way no matter what viper says and may not be putting in much, etc. we need people who gonna be straight thinkers in that meeting not followers.

VGA still alive? they gonna be in the meeting? not hearing much about VGA lately. anyone else wanna form an organization btw? speak now yes, that way we could put you in the meeting too. seems every year a new org forming yes. so doh be bashful, if you wanna form a org name MCS Inc. let us now before the meeting.

when GAMERS have their stuff organized in terms of representatives and information, let me know, the meeting go take place 1 week after that, that way all the reps, members etc, go know the meeting place, how to put forward info etc.

[rumbelly]

hmm

ramp, the way u talkin
it would seem that you went thru this with your side already .. "the meeting will be held one week after that"

hmm

cause last time i checked .. gamers was ready like freddy

[Paradoxxx]

Rampage, this is inter org talks between G@TT GAMERS and VGA.

There will be no talks with respect to the dealings of each individual organization that fixed deals Nor do we intend to discuss personal matters with anyone in any org. I already see that this may turn to a debate, its not supposed to be as such.

That MUST be agreed, once we go bringing up past events both sides gonna bring up things that gonna make the environment tense. This isnt a war its a meeting for peace and esp with viper and nigel.

Dont let personal problems hinder the growth of gaming, so no personal stuff will be brought up. Keep it formal and professional and things good to go.

Ill get Viper to attend, things should look good for that once its online.

With respect to the voicing and moderating of the channel etc, I mentioned that idea to the populace and find it to be a good one. The channel will be created by a neutral person (agreed by all orgs) and no one will have ops cept that person.

Please produce a list of items that you want to bring up @ the meeting and stick to it, GAMERS and VGA will do the same. This list is to be made public and then agreed upon by each org.

Let the Past remain the Past and move on with the future.

[loki]

i done see one man say everyone equal and only man we should look up to is viper yes. that man gonna be in the meeting ? because if he saying something like that then he probably go be backing viper all the way no matter what viper says and may not be putting in much, etc. we need people who gonna be straight thinkers in that meeting not followers.

another example how what ppl say are most of time taken the wrong way.
Just because i have respect for Viper (cuz honestly speaking he is one man who is always trying to get T&T known on the intl level) doesnt mean i am a vipes fan boy. i take offense in the fact that you labelled me as a blind follower.I would leave it at that for now cuz i don't want to come off as hostile, but i will say it again although i have utmost respect for Viper and what he does and has done for gaming in this country,I am in not way a viper fan boy so please dont label me as such.

[G_Pinkie]

i done see one man say everyone equal and only man we should look up to is viper yes. that man gonna be in the meeting ? because if he saying something like that then he probably go be backing viper all the way no matter what viper says and may not be putting in much, etc. we need people who gonna be straight thinkers in that meeting not followers.

Equality and Respect are 2 different things and should not be classed together as such, just cause a man looks up to someone doesnt mean that the person he is looking up to is greater than him.

VGA still alive? they gonna be in the meeting? not hearing much about VGA lately. anyone else wanna form an organization btw? speak now yes, that way we could put you in the meeting too. seems every year a new org forming yes. so doh be bashful, if you wanna form a org name MCS Inc. let us now before the meeting.

Dont be bashful but also dont bash, Just cause you not hearing about VGA doesnt mean they are not there. The same was with Gamers, when we now started we had almost no presence but we gradual grew and look where we are now. Also you say seems like every year a new org forming, i wouldn't say that. You make it sound like it have ah set of organisations out there, there is only 3 orgs out there.

[LARUTO]

it takes but a ripple to start a tidal wave, look how easily things get tense again.

[opium]

Originally posted by LARUTO@Mar 4 2005, 12:18 PM
it takes but a ripple to start a tidal wave, look how easily things get tense again.
Quoted post



ripple doh make waves

what u should have said is "a little nugde will come to shub and push"

[Itachi]

lordy,what make allyuh feel tings tense ? wuhever yes,i find the whole thing with one neutral man havin ops soundin like a scene,honestly i find the neutral man shud be hidden,even though he's a mc he's active in 2 of the 3 orgs and knows them pretty well,so he won't exactly be partial.......

[rampage]

Originally posted by G_Pinkie@Mar 4 2005, 01:08 PM
Equality and Respect are 2 different things and should not be classed together as such, just cause a man looks up to someone doesnt mean that the person he is looking up to is greater than him.
Dont be bashful but also dont bash, Just cause you not hearing about VGA doesnt mean they are not there. The same was with Gamers, when we now started we had almost no presence but we gradual grew and look where we are now. Also you say seems like every year a new org forming, i wouldn't say that. You make it sound like it have ah set of organisations out there, there is only 3 orgs out there.
Quoted post


lol
i simply asking a question, i aint saying vga not there, and i not bashing, you seeing something i not seeing? you not seeing a question mark after what i say each time? i just want to know if things with vga still going along and what not, just a question doh get too excited. and i make a mistake, i meant every 2 yrs a new org forming. G@TT in 2000, gamers in 2002, vga in late 2004. i miscount somewhere? look to me like you just dying to fire up a flame yes, picking out small things and blowing them up, good job, come out with a vengeance for rampage yes, lol ;)

and in regards to loki, i think you miss where i coming from. lemme paste what he said just for the record.
one thing abt this meeting that has to be understood is that nijelian in that meeting does not have a higher seating than any other mmber in any organisation. we are all going to be there on equal terms, the only person i could see that any of us has to look up too is Viper, thats it smile.gif

now go out in the road just off of kicks and show a man dat quote and ask him what he think about it. but das alright yes, i not gonna fight it down, you obviously here to defend yuh boy so it go be a waste of time anyway. take it and interpret how you want oui, gg. one of allyuh msg me on msn when things gonna start rolling oui, not in for this kinda scenes anymore, tired immc. i have no more to say on this issue, feel free to reply or whatever. when ever things ready with vga/gamers lemme know yes, my msn address is irampagemc@hotmail.com, any of you msg me when things organize, for the sake of peace i not gonna bother to read anymore replies here that don't have anything to do with unity. sorry dey lokes, i misinterpret what you said, etc.

Rampage, this is inter org talks between G@TT GAMERS and VGA.

There will be no talks with respect to the dealings of each individual organization that fixed deals Nor do we intend to discuss personal matters with anyone in any org. I already see that this may turn to a debate, its not supposed to be as such.


in that case things gonna go right back to how it was because the leaders gonna continue with the grudges and hate, in order for there to be proper peace and prosperity is the leaders that have to be dealt with , them is the ones who influencing the changes in the org and who people look up to. if you gonna ignore the personal matters between the leaders then forget the meeting yes, because it go be a complete waste. over the past 5yrs it have continuous back and forth lashing between the leaders of the orgs and the organizations does just get caught in the crossfire, or on some occasions they use the organizations to attack the leader or the other org. allyuh hadda deal with allyuh problems with Nijelian yes, nothing go change. that is the problem right there yes, the man ban yuh brother from G@TT for a year an thing, man kick out some of your current core members or whatever from G@TT, we talking level hate here. meeting go be a waste, unity go be temporary and things go be back to how it was but just probably worse in less than a month i feel.

but on another note , i sure allyuh know the problems is with the leaders man, the rest of the people...correction: most of the rest (forgot about the followers) just here to play game and have fun, they eh care bout org or leader, and is the individual leaders that making the rivalry worse and worse, so much complaints allyuh have bout Nijelian, or other certain people in G@TT. the orgs does just go along for the ride oui.


gs sb
if things eh work out, ah try. gg.

[Paradoxxx]

Originally posted by LARUTO@Mar 4 2005, 01:18 PM
it takes but a ripple to start a tidal wave, look how easily things get tense again.
Quoted post


Ent laruto, i rufuse to get bait in that nonsense again. Let whoever say whatever here but come time for meeting we MUST agree that anything inuendo,suggestion etc will be kept underwraps. We here to discuss peace not fuel a war.

I have an idea for the moderator for the talks AND Ill draft up some meeting rules. I tried looking online for some Peace Talks rules but Im not getting anything good.

All 3 must agree on the moderator and the rules prior to the meeting.

GG?

[rampage]

Originally posted by Paradoxxx@Mar 4 2005, 05:36 PM
Ent laruto, i rufuse to get bait in that nonsense again. Let whoever say whatever here but come time for meeting we MUST agree that anything inuendo,suggestion etc will be kept underwraps. We here to discuss peace not fuel a war.

I have an idea for the moderator for the talks AND Ill draft up some meeting rules. I tried looking online for some Peace Talks rules but Im not getting anything good.

All 3 must agree on the moderator and the rules prior to the meeting.

GG?
Quoted post


gg

[Paradoxxx]

in that case things gonna go right back to how it was because the leaders gonna continue with the grudges and hate, in order for there to be proper peace and prosperity is the leaders that have to be dealt with , them is the ones who influencing the changes in the org and who people look up to. if you gonna ignore the personal matters between the leaders then forget the meeting yes, because it go be a complete waste. over the past 5yrs it have continuous back and forth lashing between the leaders of the orgs and the organizations does just get caught in the crossfire, or on some occasions they use the organizations to attack the leader or the other org. allyuh hadda deal with allyuh problems with Nijelian yes, nothing go change. that is the problem right there yes, the man ban yuh brother from G@TT for a year an thing, man kick out some of your current core members or whatever from G@TT, we talking level hate here. meeting go be a waste, unity go be temporary and things go be back to how it was but just probably worse in less than a month i feel.

These talks are for the Members that each org represent. I cant make the members here who dont like nigel like him NOR can you all make the members in G@TT who dislike me like me. Small thing I dont think we here for a popularity contest, we here to break down the ties that cause segregation in the already small gaming community.

The leaders however MUST swallow pride over come their differences as professionals and seek the interest of the members. Just carry on the talks, stick to the stuff agreed on and things would be merry. This 'i eh talking to he, or he weak' thing SHOULD NOT be present.

I think we all know what talks should NOT be permitted, putting them down in the form of rules is just a formality.

Bringing up the bad events of the past, then talk peace wouldnt work. We not here to question G@TT leadership, if the G@TT members like Nijelian as a leader who are we to tell them different same goes for VGA. Those members who dont and wish to go to another org should be treated with prejudice and thats what we want.

Summary>
Bringing up the past may cause the talks to get sour, lets not do it for the sake of the gamers.

agreed?
*Paradoxxx already alerted vga bout the meeting and they are interested

[killa]

what was the outcome fo this...was the meeting held what what what
*killa would like 2 know if anything came about
holla black

[Paradoxxx]

much sticking going on, mainly by me not getitng up the rules and arranging things. Other than that I dont beleive there is a hold back.

[rampage]

i on march break for 2 weeks so i have some time

[Nailes]

With the current situation regarding Rampage's departure, the question we must now ask is "Who on G@TT's admin team is open to pursuing these inter org talks" or should I say "Who is brave enough to push for it within the G@TT ORG". Rampage imo was the only one left within the leadership team with enough respect and strength of character to truly get G@TT onto the "unity platform" We need to look at what new options can be pursued, a lot of our gamer brethren are still a part of G@TT and we must somehow find a way to keep the dream alive for both them and ourselves before it is truly too late.

[Paradoxxx]

That was really a lapse on my part, this meeting should have gone down since last week. Real hype no bite... With the Java expansion and work things tough...

We cant tell what 'would' have happened, but if we did have discussions and rampage did leave would the agreed inter-org agreements be upheld.. I think not.

[Nailes]

good point para though it seems at times the old trini adage "like we spinnin top in mud" is becoming more & more apt with each passing day. Somehow we must find a way and keep persevering till that day becomes a reality.

[rampage]

there aint gonna be any im afraid. Nijelian said and i quote:
I have no desire to be involved with anything involving dissidents and exiled members of our association. Period.

This is an ethical issue and nothing at all petty or childish.

From the onset, we welcome gamers from any and all walks of life in G@TT and Carigamers. If someone finds themselves now excluded from our activities and forums, believe me, it is with good reason. Yes, we are taking a moral high road on such issues and that ultimately is a good thing and for the greater benefit of all gamers. Our nose is clean.

Similarly, in recent times some bad apples caused trouble for Genesis and their Anime City festivals. Those individuals were exiled forthwith and are not welcome in any Genesis activities. Nor will Genesis partner with them for the promotion of anything. They were mistaken for G@TT members and Genesis even took a turn after us over it. This sort of thing is bad for the association and bad for the community.


so basically he wants to have nothing to do with a meeting, competition or any kinda friendly scenes between the orgs, we cyah go forward like that, i buss it from dey yes. so is best allyuh move on and forget about G@TT and about a meeting ever taking place. once Nijelian there, there will be no kinda friendly competitiveness or anything of that sought going on, is a pressure scene, a real pressure scene.

[loki]

so is best we just work with VGA and try our best to keep moving foward in gaming excellence :)

[Itachi]

i know dem men who was banned from genesis functions,they doh even play games !!! their a bunch of puncheon drinker metalheads who just go to ac to pips the indian girls !! lol,how de mc they cud be mistaken for G@TT ppl ? only way i see that happenin was that they was trackin Explicit/Paine and she used to be in G@TT :s and also the fact that they know me,but hafeez know de crew i does lime wit not in that slackness and he know we were in G@TT(at the time),weird incident dere oui :s

[Paradoxxx]

Thx for the insight ramp.

I think lokes said it best, time to move fwd and continue work with vga.

[Menace]

G@TT = one man is on its way out....We will move on and unite the way it should be and be stronger for it. good bye G@TT rest in pce.

[rumbelly]

from recent events, i beleive G@TT's days are numbered

i said it before and it would say it again, i didnt expect all this to happen so quickly, but it was bound to happen

if G@TT were to fold tomm, would simply mean thier members will filter into the other orgs

like para said somewhere on the site, its time to forget about G@TT/nijel and move ahead with the goals of our org as well as our goals for gaming in trinidad on the whole
G@TT/nijel has held back gaming in trinidad by YEARS, we have alot of catchin up to do

but imo, we doin good so far :kakashi4:

[deadeyes]

Originally posted by rumbelly@Mar 26 2005, 11:49 AM
from recent events, i beleive G@TT's days are numbered

i said it before and it would say it again, i didnt expect all this to happen so quickly, but it was bound to happen

if G@TT were to fold tomm, would simply mean thier members will filter into the other orgs

like para said somewhere on the site, its time to forget about G@TT/nijel and move ahead with the goals of our org as well as our goals for gaming in trinidad on the whole
G@TT/nijel has held back gaming in trinidad by YEARS, we have alot of catchin up to do

but imo, we doin good so far :kakashi4:
Quoted post


then rum it's a simple case of making the move without him, (him being Nijelian), but seriously speaking, there were some ideas on proofing the people who want to join, i don't believe it should just be acase of just signing on to a forum, but they should be screened as well, or as someone from G@TT said there'll be a lot of people reg, but it isn't a true and accurate representation of the org's true size and population, as to hafeez and the ac thing, this is just my opinion but the man is a asshole, sorry to say it, the man i a freakin asshole, now back on topic, we couldn't maintain the whole 30 a year reg fee for G@TT (dunno if is per year or per month) but we should at least have them with dogtags/ id's so noone will say look is a VGA/Gamers/G@TT man doing crap and messing up the place and causin a scene. just my idea

we could talk on how we gonna do that

[Paradoxxx]

Well we have a member grouping thing already going for us. Not everyone that signs up on the site is a 'gamer' but Im sticking, men like you and the bourbons are supposed to be added to the 'vga members' listing.

I dont think the registration fee things should be implemented, atleast not at this stage. GAMERS has a good donation system going and thus far its doing well and our bills are getting paid.

Most persons believe that an org should run itself (which is true) but I dont think at this stage we should be putting strain on gamers we should be giving back to them.

An org needs cash to pay for its hosting, domain, tourneys, 'fund a gamer' and there are better ways to get this $$ than asking for a membership fee and as you said it was a failure b4.

Scorpion has discussed some options of revenue with GAMERS at the last AC and we do hope we can get things put in place for the upcoming events that we have planned.

Just last night we were discussing something very important, that needs to be put in place asap but I cant discuss that in an open forum. I think once we have our representative present @ AC we can somehow control the scene our members are wild, but not stupid.

[deadeyes]

Originally posted by Paradoxxx@Mar 29 2005, 10:21 AM
Well we have a member grouping thing already going for us. Not everyone that signs up on the site is a 'gamer' but Im sticking, men like you and the bourbons are supposed to be added to the 'vga members' listing.

I dont think the registration fee things should be implemented, atleast not at this stage. GAMERS has a good donation system going and thus far its doing well and our bills are getting paid.

Most persons believe that an org should run itself (which is true) but I dont think at this stage we should be putting strain on gamers we should be giving back to them.

An org needs cash to pay for its hosting, domain, tourneys, 'fund a gamer' and there are better ways to get this $$ than asking for a membership fee and as you said it was a failure b4.

Scorpion has discussed some options of revenue with GAMERS at the last AC and we do hope we can get things put in place for the upcoming events that we have planned.

Just last night we were discussing something very important, that needs to be put in place asap but I cant discuss that in an open forum. I think once we have our representative present @ AC we can somehow control the scene our members are wild, but not stupid.
Quoted post


aight cool scene, one thing u misunderstood tho, am not askin that we brace the members for cash/contributions/money on the whole, but in order for us to provide something like an ID or something or a dogtag, not that expensive, i was made the point with reference to us being able to identify our people from the so called "G@TT MEN" when i say that i mean the way hafeeez claimed it was G@TT MEN who did sheet at the previous AC. but cool scene nontheless, i think i need to make a trip up there and come and meet you personally bro, check yuh pm when yuh get a chance

[killa]

d only thing with the tag and using it 2 identify ppl when dey going and do nonesense like in the incidents with d so called G@TT members in ac is that thinking logically...if i know i going and do shit i not going and wear my tag so as 2 bring down my org...das jus common sense(eventhough plenty ppl lack that)
however i think the tag things is kinda cool though...does look dred :D

[LARUTO]

FOAKers wear dog tags ;p

[deadeyes]

Originally posted by LARUTO@Mar 31 2005, 10:34 AM
FOAKers wear dog tags ;p
Quoted post



see what ah mean???? it's part of human nature to want to belong, it's a step in the right direction

[loki]

i am not a big fan of dogtags :P
dont like them

but then i dont think i need dog tags to identify me

[Itachi]

neither me boy lokes,i doh wear any jewelry 'cept for my virgin band.....

[Hidden]

Didn't they take that from you in school a while back....
Having an online database of members is good enough now imo.
One should be eventually made of persons, their real names etc, contact # if they have it.

[Paradoxxx]

Thaz where we intend to go, atleast we have these gamer members in a group. I can probably use the features in invision to record their picture and accurate information.

[androsovic]

What's 'fund a gamer' ?

[killa]

well i think is like if somebody in desperate need of something 2 continue gaming den d members chip up and assist him 2 get the item
kinda like me now, i eh ha no monitor :(

[Paradoxxx]

lol no fund a gamer comes into play when teams require assistance to enter tourneys and such.

E.g Andro team is very good at COD, they want to enter a tourney where the prize is $500 but they have to pay $100 to enter. Thats money they dont got.

GAMERS sees the talent and pays the entry fee, Andro wins and give $100 back to GAMERS. Should Andro loose, gamers looses their money.

Its not applicable to everyone, GAMERS eh rich.

[bill]

wow i feelin young wait i am all this happen in the past