The future of competitive Gaming.

[bill]

After Going to arena and seeing noting is moving in Trinidad gaming so i am making this thread for the community on a whole to have talks in either org.

Having a tournament is very hard to get computers TVs consoles etc sponsors and help with organization but since we are actually gamers i don't think it should be a problem.

Please Put all beefs behind you stop that ego shit and lets get somewhere for once mojo cut the crap stop being lazy and register TriniGamers.

This type of thread will be on sweatbox TriniGamers and Shizzles

[LARUTO]

leaving out Gatt?

[mojo]

bill get your info straight, nobody is waiting on mojo for anything... Bill since u seem to be so enthusiastic about it, u gonna be helping us with the work.

Preparations are being made by another member for us to meet with a legal advisor in order to get the registration going smoothly.

When we get the job done, everyone will be notified on these forums.

[bill]

Hoss i eh care w/e a have to do move a box :o w/e i made this thread not to..hear men negative talks hoss what we can CONTRIBUTE to future tornys i eh make it cause i feel to i make it cause i was asked.

@ gatt i could not log in :o

[LARUTO]

as long as bill is not responsible for any official documentation

[slickdre]

umm tryin to push this to the next level?

well i for on will like to help out in my small ways...an from what i readed in the other threads about organzation i know we can pull this off....

[Geese]

it real weird eh, bill so well spoken in person but can't type for shit...

[phoenix31tt]

as long as bill is not responsible for any official documentation

sighs... was thinking the same thing when i pushed myself to read true the arena report lol

@ any rate i would like to see tg get a chance @ the helm... see how they handle a large scale event... but is to get that chance

[bill]

as long as bill is not responsible for any official documentation

NON @ all!

[slickdre]

@ any rate i would like to see tg get a chance @ the helm... see how they handle a large scale event... but is to get that chance

yea i mean i am sure TG can pull off a good gameing event...an who else has a better gameing experience other than TG??....an its as you said phoen.....

well no tourney is ever pulled off to perfection... even @ the very top... but @ the very least you must be able to walk away from the tourney feeling a little bit satisfied... not everybody frustrated

i think that goin away from it knowin that the fact you enjoyed yourself is all that is need

[heady]

put in a donation button and allyuh donate 3,000 and they could start from there.

[slider]

i've been involved in gaming, organising tourneys etc. since 1999 when confed (my home clan) helped to stage quakecon @ valpark. we had sponsorship, radio and press advertising. it was this event that helped to kick-start organised competitive gaming in t&t. we (the gamers) can do it again for dota, for anything else that we want. we don't need to wait for a guy with the contacts and cash to do eeeeet!

let's have a republic day tourney! i can readily promise sweatbox resources (including $500 in prize money) in pulling this off, if the gamers want it!

[Mr Shooter]

For those of you that kno me and my dream u will kno dat dis is a soon to be reality, it will require alot of effort by all invovled so remember that u offered ur assistance. I will not pull sown another org, but being that I belong to dis Org it is my belief dat we can host summtin of a large scale and show our strengh as an Gaming Org. I say lets put our heads together and get rdy for summtin huge nex year, using the past events dat have been hosted as a reference as wat works/ wat does not.

Plus allya dun kno de Shooter doing anything to push competitve gaming in Trinidad and Tobago.

[Ihsan]

After Going to arena and seeing noting is moving in Trinidad gaming so i am making this thread for the community on a whole to have talks in either org....

... Please Put all beefs behind you stop that ego shit and lets get somewhere for once....


We all have the same dream but even in this same thread I keep seeing posts like:
leaving out Gatt? EGO ALERT!
as long as bill is not responsible for any official documentation BEEF ALERT!

If you look at it LOGICALLY, Arena already has the biggest sponsorship and the gaming communities should rally around them for the next big gaming event instead of going to their sponsors as trinigamers (or whatever) and saying how bad Arena was and that trinigamers can do it better somehow. The latter will most likely result in sponsors putting their money in proven event types (sports and fetes) leaving us ALL right where we are now.
Imagine if Arena went off perfectly. bmobile would have been POURING money into it next year. Digicel would then take note and electronic gaming will suddenly be proven to sponsors and we could get back to our squabbles after that. Only difference would be that each org would have it easy to get sponsors to pay their bills.

I'm not defending the Arena event itself. It WAS poorly organized but satek, lexmark, holiday, wizz and bmobile were there. I can't think of one other sponsored gaming tournament and THAT'S the problem.

I know how hard it is to accept that Arena is our BEST chance to take T&T competitive gaming to the next level but it is a FACT. So I will end this post by quoting bill again:
Please Put all beefs behind you stop that ego shit and lets get somewhere for once....

[loki]

We all have the same dream but even in this same thread I keep seeing posts like:
EGO ALERT!
BEEF ALERT!

If you look at it LOGICALLY, Arena already has the biggest sponsorship and the gaming communities should rally around them for the next big gaming event instead of going to their sponsors as trinigamers (or whatever) and saying how bad Arena was and that trinigamers can do it better somehow. The latter will most likely result in sponsors putting their money in proven event types (sports and fetes) leaving us ALL right where we are now.
Imagine if Arena went off perfectly. bmobile would have been POURING money into it next year. Digicel would then take note and electronic gaming will suddenly be proven to sponsors and we could get back to our squabbles after that. Only difference would be that each org would have it easy to get sponsors to pay their bills.

I'm not defending the Arena event itself. It WAS poorly organized but satek, lexmark, holiday, wizz and bmobile were there. I can't think of one other sponsored gaming tournament and THAT'S the problem.

I know how hard it is to accept that Arena is our BEST chance to take T&T competitive gaming to the next level but it is a FACT. So I will end this post by quoting bill again:


yuh taking what men saying in joke out of context. but then you don't know larry so yeh.


Thing is i was there at the first Arena in a so call managerial role for the TG crew, and i was also supposed to play in cod that year. When i was there seeing how poorly things where going, i, myself went to topper and talked to him, and showed him how to handle the scenes then and there better, and he even told me if i can organize the pcs and set up the teams for the Dota we could play the tournament, i did that, we had 10 pcs and had a game going... but the gaming organizer of the event pulled the plug on us. Topper had my number and also another representative of TG's number and we told him if he is having another tournament, we will help if we were needed. We received no request in that manner. I was hoping he learnt from his mistakes in the first one, but it seems like it was repeated.

and to state again... TG OFFERED OUR ORGANIZATIONAL skills for ARENA 2, since the time of the first one, but we were not called upon.

[bill]

When we mentioned it to topper in the night he laughed and turned his back on mg :(

[Geese]

I'm not defending the Arena event itself. It WAS poorly organized but satek, lexmark, holiday, wizz and bmobile were there. I can't think of one other sponsored gaming tournament and THAT'S the problem.

Saitek & Lexmark distributed by the same company locally, Barada (Glen). Tournaments do take place, it may not be well advertised but they do take place and the standard of competition is usually HIGHER than that of Arena. Its ironic that the winners of our tournaments in UWI happened to take Arena as well.

I know how hard it is to accept that Arena is our BEST chance to take T&T competitive gaming to the next level but it is a FACT. So I will end this post by quoting bill again:

Please look at other regional competitions and realize that outside of DOTA and HALO Trinidad very much behind in every other game we play (we getting there in SSBM but smash will be outdated in approximately 3 months), and guess what ? We still playing stuff like COD UO and SF2 and Tekken 5 (nothing wrong with these games but they not played competitively anywhere else).

You wanna promote something competitive get with the program, push the games and they will be played, educate the masses

It's like this basically -
1. Cater to the masses of noobs & casual gamers and make real $$$$$ but the competitive level stays the same ie substandard.
OR
2. Cater to the hardcore competitors make very little $$ in comparison to above and increase the level of the players locally so that they could have a shot of winning some recognition outside of Trinidad.

I'd like to ask a few question if its possible to get a reply. How many participants were there for each game ? Was there a cap (ie 32 men etc) ?

From a business point of view, several businesses who were part of Arena 1 sponsorship were not part of Arena 2, guess why ?

Oh and in case you are wondering ,I am a tournament organizer/director. I have run tournaments all which have come off without any major hitches and have sacrificed my health and alot of my personal $$ for my love of gaming. Then again is fellas who passionate about stuff does usually get the short end of the stick. I real thinking about Viper now for some reason. I even ran a tournament at a regional gaming competition which had gamers from all over the caribbean including some WELL KNOWN international players. I'd rather pay thousands of dollars to go compete there than to waste money down here and attend events that clearly all about $$$ and come off piss poor.

[scaR]

Ihsan you're a small guy in the Arena camp. Up till now you can't defend Topper's behaviour towards gamers during the event. Imagine the organiser treating gamers like they're below him. Threatening to call it off for "leg room". Serving warm water and saying, "They ain't have to buy it." They ain't have to come back next year too then. You can't say anything on that because you know Topper will pull your plug.

There were many gamers who would never attend another Arena after the first one despite how much money is offered. There's even more who wouldn't give it a thought after the second Arena. Considering the mass amount of money that went into the event, the participation was not on par at all.

TG did go to Topper after the first failed Arena and we weren't taken up on the offer. We get a "no" long time. Yet it's cool and all for us to bail you guys out with rules that took much researching to write up. We gave it for the gamers in the event, not for Arena, for the gamers.

Arena is not the best chance to take competitive gaming to the next level. You see you're thinking money and prizes, completely missing the point. You don't even know what that quote means. You need to raise the level of the entire community, not just a few in a single yearly event. This is the same failure of the WCG qualifers. It's a one time thing, no development before or after the event.

The true strength of T&T gaming will come when the level of gaming in the community is so highly developed that we have clans rising up and developing new players for competition. Events will need pre-qualifiers since there are so many teams, there aren't enough free slots and qualifying alone will be an honour. There will be at least three major events for the year and many in between. Sponsors will not only support competitions but they will start to support teams and players as well. A complete self sustaining system of existence for everyone.

Take off your blinders.

[PhoeniX]

it real weird eh, bill so well spoken in person but can't type for shit...


You ever meet tm1? bill is a scholar

[Ihsan]

Ihsan you're a small guy in the Arena camp. Up till now you can't defend Topper's behaviour towards gamers during the event. Imagine the organiser treating gamers like they're below him. Threatening to call it off for "leg room". Serving warm water and saying, "They ain't have to buy it." They ain't have to come back next year too then. You can't say anything on that because you know Topper will pull your plug.

There were many gamers who would never attend another Arena after the first one despite how much money is offered. There's even more who wouldn't give it a thought after the second Arena. Considering the mass amount of money that went into the event, the participation was not on par at all.

TG did go to Topper after the first failed Arena and we weren't taken up on the offer. We get a "no" long time. Yet it's cool and all for us to bail you guys out with rules that took much researching to write up. We gave it for the gamers in the event, not for Arena, for the gamers.

Arena is not the best chance to take competitive gaming to the next level. You see you're thinking money and prizes, completely missing the point. You don't even know what that quote means. You need to raise the level of the entire community, not just a few in a single yearly event. This is the same failure of the WCG qualifers. It's a one time thing, no development before or after the event.

The true strength of T&T gaming will come when the level of gaming in the community is so highly developed that we have clans rising up and developing new players for competition. Events will need pre-qualifiers since there are so many teams, there aren't enough free slots and qualifying alone will be an honour. There will be at least three major events for the year and many in between. Sponsors will not only support competitions but they will start to support teams and players as well. A complete self sustaining system of existence for everyone.

Take off your blinders.

You have more history than me. I don't agree with much of what toppers did in his handling of the dota incident. I actually agree with most of what you are saying but let's be real, money talks. There can never be pro gamers if nobody pays them.
You are assuming that if we have have better players we will have people to sponsor them. That is, sadly, absurd.
Pro gamers need sponsors, sponsors need a market. The market is casual gamers.
I don't think I have blinders on when I say we need to have proof that sponsored gaming tournaments can be successful even if the manager is not a gamer. It's a a stage our gaming must go through. We all benefit and can move on after.

I have a lot of respect for you SCAR and i would like to thank you for the whole broodwar installer bit. I have no doubt that you can run a better gaming tournament, what you can't do is convince anybody to pay for it. Everybody has their purpose. Everybody can do something. The dream is still alive(?)

[phoenix31tt]

yea well is time for some men to let people do there part... as u said... gettin the money is one thing... but managin the thing is something diff... there services were offered... it was refused... what next?

[Xecutiona]

You have more history than me. I don't agree with much of what toppers did in his handling of the dota incident. I actually agree with most of what you are saying but let's be real, money talks. There can never be pro gamers if nobody pays them.
You are assuming that if we have have better players we will have people to sponsor them. That is, sadly, absurd.
Pro gamers need sponsors, sponsors need a market. The market is casual gamers.
I don't think I have blinders on when I say we need to have proof that sponsored gaming tournaments can be successful even if the manager is not a gamer. It's a a stage our gaming must go through. We all benefit and can move on after.

I have a lot of respect for you SCAR and i would like to thank you for the whole broodwar installer bit. I have no doubt that you can run a better gaming tournament, what you can't do is convince anybody to pay for it. Everybody has their purpose. Everybody can do something. The dream is still alive(?)
the dream doesnt involve playing non competitive games in what is carded as a major gaming tournament

the dream doesnt involve the exclusion of real gaming expertise from the structuring of the tournament

the dream doesnt only involve five donated cellphones for a team that trains together constantly.(the 1000 can easily be raised through pot prize)

the dream doesnt promise sponsorship to international tournaments and then refuse to fulfil the prize a la ARENA 1( which is not only highly distasteful and immoral but also ILLEGAL)

the dota incident that occured this year sounds familiar with all of the other tournaments occuring throughout arena 1 (which was not only toppas fault, but the folly of gatt...but he(toppa) still gets main blame)

you say that the market is casual gamers, gamers who would come to play a lil game, watch some anime and lime...thats all good and well, but i can also tell you that REAL gaming tournaments have competitive games along with non-competitive games

sure you have the smash and tekken, dota whatever. but if you want respect in the gaming world for a world class tournament, you need

Counterstrke
Warcraft 3(not dota)
Starcraft
fifa-or PES(depending on if you going according to wcg or eswc
command and conquer 3
gran turismo 4

and the competitive list goes on.....all you have to do is look and you would find.

the proper introduction and marketing of the tournament with these games throughout the gaming organisations,cafe's etc would definately bring a crowd to a tournament.

the dream is a very structured dream, one which can definately be attained. but the right thing must be done by people...cause what you dont know would definately bite you in the ass someday.

[Ihsan]

the dream doesnt involve playing non competitive games in what is carded as a major gaming tournament...


By any yardstick Arena was pretty small, but it was the biggest I've seen so far (sponsorship making a major difference).
I am pretty young still but I'm old enough to know that industrys don't grow overnight.

All can agree that sponsorship makes the events bigger, size increases the prize money, prize money raises the standard by attracting more "serious" gamers. Time has proven that it doesn't happen the other way around.

It's easy to predict that Toppers will not be running the biggest e-gaming event in 10 years, TG probably will. My question is how big will that event be?

Think about it.

[Xecutiona]

prize money isnt the only thing that attracts big gamers....the fact that there would be other big gamers there participating is a bigger factor...the title as "the best" is a bigger motivating factor

the money is the icing on the cake.

what we have to do is to broaden the horizons of gaming. talk to hotels, travel agents, airlines etc... to encourage packages to trinidad. talk to the TDC and see what they are willing to offer if we can encourage foreign gamers to come. make it a regional event. if this can be made annual, by the second year we would become ESWC compliant and can receive further funding and organisational expertise from them

[Ihsan]

prize money isnt the only thing that attracts big gamers....the fact that there would be other big gamers there participating is a bigger factor...the title as "the best" is a bigger motivating factor

the money is the icing on the cake.

what we have to do is to broaden the horizons of gaming. talk to hotels, travel agents, airlines etc... to encourage packages to trinidad. talk to the TDC and see what they are willing to offer if we can encourage foreign gamers to come. make it a regional event. if this can be made annual, by the second year we would become ESWC compliant and can receive further funding and organisational expertise from them

You obviously have no bills to pay but I can agree with you on that. Problem is that we just don't have anything big enough to prove to the business community that it makes sense. We simply need multiple events as-big-as and larger-than Arena before that happens.

[Geese]

Sadly if events like Arena keep disappointing the business community that may never happen.

[LARUTO]

EGO alert?
BEEF alert?

Please do not quote me out of context, it reflects poorly on your ability to comprehend posts.

Ihsan, I've read all your posts here regarding Arena and promoting gaming i nthe country... and quite frankly you have alot to learn. There is alot more i could say to this but it does not really matter, whether or not you think Arena was the single greatest chance we had of promoting gaming is totally irrelevant. What matters is how our org presents itself when approaching potential sponsors and also how we present ourselves to the gamers we seek to satisfy.
Unlike some people we do not do this for money or rather personal profit, we do this because we just want to give all gamers an oppurtunity to have something better. Not sure if you would understand what that means, but like i said, it doesn't matter.

anyhow, i going to celebrate, Pakistan just beat Australia

[Paradoxxx]

I have no clue as to why Toppers keeps refusing help from TG with regards to organizing their PC events. We have offered our services to them FREE of charge for both events.

Bill what keeps holding back 'progress' of gaming is that the wrong people are getting the right sponsors. The wrong people have the right contacts. Many people are of the opinion that anyone can have a tournament once they have money for prizes, this is far from true.

This may sound bias but TG is the best group to ally yourself with when it comes to gaming in Trinidad and Tobago. Sad to say the other organizations lack the human resources and experience that TG has developed over the years.

Sounds EGO-ish huh? The difference is that TG offers its assistance to the other organizations to ensure their events have similar success as ours. Why would TG do this? With each failure of an event especially those which are heavily advertised and attract the eye of the business sector, possible sponsors get turned off from gaming. Businesses want to see a large turn out of happy people with positive feedback. We need their money and can't afford for them to turn away from e-sports.

[TaC_Up]

prize money isnt the only thing that attracts big gamers....the fact that there would be other big gamers there participating is a bigger factor...the title as "the best" is a bigger motivating factor

the money is the icing on the cake.

what we have to do is to broaden the horizons of gaming. talk to hotels, travel agents, airlines etc... to encourage packages to trinidad. talk to the TDC and see what they are willing to offer if we can encourage foreign gamers to come. make it a regional event. if this can be made annual, by the second year we would become ESWC compliant and can receive further funding and organisational expertise from them


That's last part is pushing it a bit far, we need to get the local act in order first before we even start thinking about bringing foreigners. If we do bring them in and mess up the tourney then they won't come back. First impression counts for alot.

[Ihsan]

EGO alert?
BEEF alert?

Please do not quote me out of context, it reflects poorly on your ability to comprehend posts.
No comment.

I have no clue as to why Toppers keeps refusing help from TG with regards to organizing their PC events. We have offered our services to them FREE of charge for both events.

The first time I saw Topper and Darren (aka Skinnyman) making plans for arena two things were immediately clear:
If you want a rational conversation about gaming, talk to the gamer: Darren.
If you want a rational conversation about sponsorship or marketing, talk to Topper.

Just my observation.

[Mr Shooter]

Ok so this discussion going great, I would like to give my 2 cents again.
Promoting an event of Arena size is hard work and will take a lot of peperation thats why WE ALL who are serioius about pushing competitive gaming in our region need to come together and get this done, I really have to agree with Geese, at present we are using the wrong games for competitive play and the proper introduction of Regional/International competitive games is needed I have shared these ideas with Administrative staff of Tg so hopefully we can begin the process that is requiered.
In concern with sponsers, i'm sure, yes very sure, that if another event of this size is to be held sponsers will come. Mistakes happen but looking to closely at them will deny you the lesson of why that mistake was made and how to avoid it in the future.
If the discussion is about competitive gaming and its future then ppl, have faith in the Trinigamers Administration, our future as an Organization is bright and sure once we have the level of dedication needed to drive the weakest of hearts to be inspired.
My name is Mr Shooter and I fully support any and all events held by Trinigamers and its members, lets turn this thread into a where do we go from here, instead of bash Arena thread, I seriously feel we can move a mountain if we work together.