Tg Ban/safelist

[Paradoxxx]

INTRO

Hi folks a while back we discussed implementing techniques of improving the quality of the games on the local server. I was reminded of the plague of leavers last night (on my off afternoon) and decided to make a move to fix this issue.

The techique will require hosts to download, configure and run a 3rd party application named w3cbanlist during the hosting process. The application will read two global lists and inform the host whether a user is on a safelist or on a banlist.

The host can choose to play games with ONLY safelisted players or revoke players that are on the banlist.


The global safelist/banlists can not be added to or modified at this moment cept manually by Myself, scar and dinesh. I will be providing user interfaces for power users to allow them to maintain the lists.

Please feel free to send TG admins a PM with information that you will like added to either list in the following format.

List (ban or safe)
username reason

e.g

safelist
sloth-noob DSL, doesn't sell most of the time
VISP DSL, pimps various chicks in RBTT
se7en sighs

banlist
Fraet leaves games on a frequent basis because "he has to go"

The final say is on the HOST, if he wishes to allow a player in TG can not override his rule.
__________________________________________________ ___
MANUAL LINKS TO THE LISTS
http://www.trinigamers.com/lists/safelist.php
http://www.trinigamers.com/lists/banlist.php


INSTALL

The banlist can be downloaded from
http://www.wc3banlist.de

Download the attached file and extract it, use the following guide to add the extracted files to your list.

http://www.trinigamers.com/banlistconfig.swf

Use the green light to refresh the lists in the events of updates.

further more -



http://www.trinigamers.com/banlistconfig.JPG
http://trinigamers.com/banlistconfig.jpg

[archvile]

could it be? salvation? that which brings balance to the force?

[Paradoxxx]

populated the list with extra information based on some games last night.
40 safelisted players
4 banlisted. (3 of which can make it to the safelist with more practice)

Users that are not hosting can run the application during a game to get information on the players entering.

[phoenix31tt]

i'm not on the safelist lawd? we need to get the other admins/power users who are more regular in games to edit the safelist asap k

[seven]

INTRO

I will be providing user interfaces for power users to allow them to maintain the lists.



what does that mean?

[Paradoxxx]

what does that mean?


I will be creating web forms for certain people to enter/modify data on the lists.


phoenix you have been added, under phoenix31tt (http://www.trinigamers.com/forums/member.php?u=964)

[mojo]

hmmm. maybe i a bit confused here. Is it one global list? Or are we using a normal banlist where each host maintains his own list?

[Paradoxxx]

2 global lists,

A list named the safelist (with players that dont drop/leave) and information on their level of play. Its by no means a gosu list.

Another list with ppl that can ruin a game by excessive selling, dropping, leaving.

[sloth-noob]

sloth-noob--->power user--->nice ring to it :D

[phoenix31tt]

uhh i see i am on the safelist... but i dont play on evdo... nor do i sell :S
... rofl

[seven]

i dont sigh...sighs

[Paradoxxx]

seven you sigh. remember last night?

phoenix you are reading the wrong info (maybe mrmodem)

[phoenix31tt]

or ok cool mrmodem is actually a player lawd... lol...
arbiter Does not drop, now learning the game phoenix31tt --> means arbiter does not drop and i am now learning? jus makin sure i readin right... or is dere no desc for me

[seven]

lol at remember last night...yea that was a beat out...but it was expected

[MG]

se7en u had that one in the bag man...i feel u have a block against winning now :p

and sloth need to learn that when u gank..u will be ganked lol
man was the focus of attention like whoa...reminds me of how fault plays in java...then complains about getting ganked...lol

[Paradoxxx]

are you arbiter phoenix?
_______________________

How it was expected seven? btw resistence was soldier ent?

[seven]

it was expected the minute sloth say "we have this one in the bag"

me and ater was like we jus holding on rel good but when they push together with all them area effects we ded...adn we have no strengths...we jus delayed the inevitable...but the stupid thing is...we coulda win rel early

sigh at sloth and he goat mouth

P.S. our team had no ear effects...ater refused to disable mg with he ulti and i could not reach the intel to guinsoo him

area effects = treant ulti, shadow fiend , obsidian (one intel we had so ulti rel hurt), sladar come in with stomp

nice lil mortred who we cah see..jus raping men

[MG]

well our heroes were definitely more late game (slardar, pa)

but my team was doing too much crap in the earlies...refusing to focus the right hero. i think when they realise the lossing battles during mid game they understood why we were focusing who. never the less...they managed to get some items for their heroes and once we won a single battle that was enough to know we were able to push....

thank goodness chinee was usefull in the end..cuz he really handicapped the team in the early and was not puyin attention to battles...he did buy as he was advised so it worked out well never the less...was still tuggin stones a lil though lol

[seven]

yea but alyuh pull through in the end rel good...it rel hurt to see 3 heros die so fas from a single combo and men eh get chance to move or attack

[Deathknight]

Para Im gettin a socket error every time i load up the safelist and ban list...:( i did everythin the site said and still no luck

Help me out here :confused:

[scaR]

Does anyone have the replay of this game? Sounds like a nice one for the archives. Send it to trinigamers.replays@gmail.com please and I'll ul it.

[kaizen]

nah arb and phoen1333xt are 2 diff ppl

[Paradoxxx]

The banlist seems to be working with a few hitches. One note worthy issue is that at the moment I am the one making the entries based on feedback from players.

Banlisting a player is a serious thing, i have my application set to autokick them resulting in angry players. It was suggested that we have a formal technique to add player to the banlist (like a few votes or something). The important thing to note is that a banlist can be circumvented by using a new nick.

Another issue that has been causing problems is the safelist, some players see 'noobs' on the safelist and argue that they shouldn't be there. It is my opinion that we can not ban players from games because they are noobs/sellers unless they do so to the extreme.

It is important to view the comments on the list (which is updated often) and then decide to keep or not to keep. If a player joins without info, you can choose to kick and deal with players that you have info on. I am sure in 2 weeks we should have a large amount of players on the safelist, enough so that we can use the info to balance sides.

People play different depending on circumstance and kills don't mean everything esp when you have a role like a tank/starter. Please be understanding with your feedback.

Keep it coming.

[Paradoxxx]

Got some feeback over the weekend and some replays from lordd0g and raigor with requests to ban mindless and earz respectively. Both have sorta good reasons to request the ban however neither will be honored.

Its sad to see good players leave games and sell games, good players please remember that even though you frequently win games there are other players involved and your acts may be deemed selfish.

[seven]

paradoxx...xiano is not a leaver...he drops sometimes due to line problems

he hardly even plays on server or if even once every 6 months so i dont know how he got there...if a player is goin to be on the safe or ban list then they should have been properly evaluated or status come from very valid sources

gg and gl

[scaR]

I was in the game when Mindless buss out and it was ridiculous. We were one down decided to play on. They still playing and on top since the beginning. Raigor and Razor in a single corridor is pain oui. Anyway, after one from them left and it was even (4v4) again this man say that is their solo hero that drop and he gone for that.

Apparently it is ok to play with an extra man but it's not ok to lose your solo hero afterwards for an even game. I wouldn't ban Mindless either since he's been with us for a while, but this is definitely a strike. Offer others the same courtesy they offer you.

[seven]

Once the solo hero has dropped or left then the game should be remade no questions asked...the reason being that the other solo hero is already 4 levels above the others and has more gold and items.

i have played many games with mindless and he has alot of experience with the games...most of the time when he tells me it makes no sense playing i tell him to stay and fight it out but we still end up losing (das jus how i prefer it to be) but to him its like wasting his time...if he says its a lost game then maybe he could be rite but it that does not mean he should leave

I think he is the only player on the server that has played close to more games than paradoxx...u cant ban him...u can jus hope that he at least sticks around for the game to finish

[Paradoxxx]

I think everyone on the server has played more games than me, im an off/on player. This issue all comes down to manners in the game (and I dont mean taunting), MG and I have brought back a few game from almost dead to come with a win. In the first place players are not supposed to leave to cause a 5v4 problems.

Funny enough I got a replay of players backdooring and put a temp ban on that for the week. I didn't feel nice but was necessary.
__________________________________________________ ____________

I think we should post some rules of gameplay, something that we expected of all users already but some users don't seem to understand.

Stuff related to cheats/hacks, leaving, backdooring.
__________________________________________________ _________

Seven the xiano stuff was related to me by a fellow admin on TG so I took his word on it. You must admit that if he drops for whatever reason he will disrupt games.

[seven]

i understand that para...but how many games did xiano leave?

if someone leaves once then he is on banlist?

I do hnormally leave but if for some reason i jus left the game...i should be removed from safelist and on banlist?

what i trying to say is that...a player cannot be judged from one game not even 2 i think...if it is a continuous leaving and u could say this person is goin to leave when he joins then so be it

U cant ban somone who left in one game...makes no sense...and i know xiano...he doh leave games...i know him quite some time now and is a good friend of mine...he would never leave a dota game...i could vouch for that...is jus up to u take my word for it

[Paradoxxx]

Consider it revoked then.

[mojo]

i know xiano pretty well, but a banlist is not about who is your friend. When I had dsl and used to drop I was not allowed in the then "pro channel" because I dropped twice in the earlies of the project. I agree that it is not his fault that his dsl drops/current cuts/pc freezes, but it doesn't change the fact that he is a player that drops.

Remember none of this is carved in stone. If the host decides that he wants to let his "friend" play who can stop him? The banlist is just intended as a guide. In an unrelated incident, I was also in a game that xiano dropped. I am posting the replay so I dont get flames. I not gonna say what caused the drop, it can be many things. What I CAN say is that there was no delay or lag involved with timing out, so I am guessing whatever caused it was abrupt.

[soldier]

It basically comes down to your "rep" on server.

Toro drops from games... Ban him nah ?

I've left a few games because of c***ish partners.. Ban meh nah ?

Mindless [ well that has been discussed already ]

I've seen box leave a game... ban him nah ?

meh.. dis is real confusion.. lol!

[MG]

i don't recall soldier ever losing a game? well, unless ofcourse it was his teammates' fault lol

but aparently soldier missed the point, not surprising. we are not talking about ppl who drop. toro is not known as a player that dies and then 'coincidently' drops without any lag or timeout. nor do i recall u doin that either.

mindless, in my book, will leave a game if it is not going well for him. and box has been known to do the same, simply cuz he doesn't care bout local server enough to give a shit. at the end of the day, despite knowing the 2 of them for quite some time..i would still ban them. it's how tda does it and no one should be exempted from basic manners.

being a veteran on the server should imply a more mature approach to the situations, not less.

[seven]

mojo....the reason i said he drops is because i was also in games with him and the same thing happened...the "drop" is different from the word "leave"

you dont need a replay for that...i think u missed it all though...one game the person saw him drop and decided to report him...u find that fair?

there are games u drop as well but i know u are not a leaver so what point u are trying to make?

it is not about friends with either cause i know u too..and u know xiano

what i am saying is that if the person gets 3 strikes then good..put them on banlist cause it implies that the person did not fix the problem and they are clearly spoiling the game knowing fully well that they might drop

das y i said if i drop a day then i should be on banlist...

I could all the persons that would drop in a game but they will play...i know they are not leavers

and lastly..soldier did have a point cause it does come down to "rep" on server in some way cause xiano has no "rep" das the point he trying make...if he drops once goodbye das the point he making

[Paradoxxx]

To be honest soldier I refrained from playing games with toro/sensei during their peak dropping season. Its not their fault but they do disrupt the scene, both sensei and toro seem to have their problem resolved or not as frequent. The ban list was not in effect then when they had their issues and if so they would have their comments altered on the safelist to indicate that they have a problem. Check sensei info nah, i think it makes mention of the disconnecting problem.

Box and mindless have left games indeed, box got me a bit angry when he left that game because of its importance. To refresh the memory of those there it was the game in which we stacked a hard side to play against.

Soldier, icepik, sloth, boxy, (someother player) against me mg, 2 fellas new to dota, pweff. The imba side (box and them) were loosing and one of the newbs on my side made a remark "go back and play wow", box said ok and ALT QQ. I admit they would have most likely lost but the possibility exists that they might have won with those calibur of players. He later expressed to me that he found his players to be playing a poor game and didn't want to waste the time.

Possible solution

I am trying to bring the TDA logistics to the server to improve gameplay and get Trinis to a higher level of dota/gameplay. In TDA there is the FF technique meaning friendly forfeit when a game is surely lost, all members of the team have to say ff and from there anyone can leave.

[phoenix31tt]

agreed with the ff... i personally never leave games no matter how bad we loosing cuz is a certain respect, everybody need to learn that

...and backdooring is legal now not so? with the exception of all base towers...


i've seen people win games when a solo leaves and it is even... why? sell/take his items and gg... so that is noo reason to leave a game...

[Crixx_Creww]

had my self a read of the list. pretty short list, alot of notable names missing and some that dont have comments, lol i not there, heady have no comment but i must say omfg that list is hilarious ahhahaahah

anyone notice the real underlying problem wtih dota players in tg?? bout half the men have comments bout do not let them play while drunk lol lol

stop drinking an playin yu hores lol

[Paradoxxx]

Now while you may think that is kicks, these men really do play shit when they drunk jed. Doh drink and play dota. Iz either that or they using the 'i tight' to excuse them for their poor play.

TDA has the formal style for comments, I think the informal manner provides a lil kix as well as the information on the player. The lack of information is generally because I havn't played with them or got any feedback on them.

CRIXXX i am more than willing to add names to the lists, please give me the names and comments for players.

[eddoes]

errm....can i just say that i have been with the server for more dan a year now and am a bit disappointed that my name was not included on ANY of the lists. this is an outrage that i have been ignored this badly :( . Please look up my file and place me accordingly into a list. I would greatly appreciate this... :)

[seven]

lol at how eddoes emotions change from :( to :)

eddoes u safe boy...it doh matter lol...paradoxx will add u to the appropriate list

[MG]

ofcourse some ppl might not be there simply because they play under different names with some odd spelling. only accurate way to add them is to actually catch their name in a game online...

[Doobs]

yes tru that. I play as Synergist with funny characters. so i can see that may cause a prob.

[Xen_Lunchbox]

sigh,in my opinion, i dont see the need for a banlist, the n00bs are already well known on server and its not as if we have over 3,000 players on gosu server.
The problem is that whos really teaching them how to play? Most of these noobs do not understand the foundation of the game (wc3 normals) and are not being mentored by gosu players e.g. icepik,se7en,at3r,toro,sold,ears,para,mg,jin,cance r and so on

[phoenix31tt]

hmmm @ them "gosu" players you call they... and you dont need to play wc3 normal to play dota good... that will just help one aspect of your gaming... but you can hold your own without it

[soldier]

Is a damn good foundation.. Being able to micro 3 heros and 3 different groups of forces at the same time helps alot with yout dota microing skills... something some people just cannot do..

[phoenix31tt]

dota microin skills is totally different to wc3 microing skills... even tda said so... the only aspect of wc3 microing skills that come into play is when playin multiple units i.e. chen, enigma, hod etc... microin in dota is more for kills/denies, spell/item usage etc... again you dont need a wc3 foundation to be good @ dota... yes it well help you to become gosu but u dont need it to be good

[soldier]

SO.. you don't have items in normal wc to use? huh ? The worst thing is to see a man with chen with centaurs and cyah use d fruiting tab button to switch units and stomp .. or with bear man.. Then again. it depends on how u play. If you good everything could be in a different group. Eg. bear man and his bear .. 1 & 2... it helps alot for harassing and when escaping :)

You don't jus born with this knowledge.. it comes from normal..

[phoenix31tt]

all i am saying is that u do not need to play normals to be good @ dota... u can learn dota by playing dota... just like any other game... playin wc3 will give u a edge... but u dont need it...

[Paradoxxx]

Any more names for the list? I havn't been on local for quite sometime (tda ftw) please keep me abreast of any new newbs on the prowl.

[soldier]

Why you on tda para? :rolleyes:

[slickdre]

Any more names for the list? I havn't been on local for quite sometime (tda ftw) please keep me abreast of any new newbs on the prowl.

i would like you to add me to the list para

sLiKcDrE:good Support player

[Paradoxxx]

added you and blood_creed, cancer, slick and a few others to the list of 'safe players'

I am moving move players to the ban section to improve the quality of the games, if hosts wish they can disable the autokick to allow banlisted players. It is also recommended to do a manual /check on players that may have spoofed names. Slack for instance uses an i instead of the L to allude the list.

[kaizen]

well @ anoreth and there statements
ITS VERY NICE TO SEE that ppl still trying to be nice to men like slack etc ..
but for me gg :D we want to face good games ..we dont want no lag or droppers or sellers in games we already get grey hair for over a year of this..
i myslef use to be a lagger i mean i had 56k lol but i got dsl eventually and moved on..if you here for a goodwhile and still doing the same nonesense do you deserve to be on the server? sure it is a free priveledge for all trinigamers and friends to use but still come on ppl we tolerate most of your crap cause we think you will eventually get better ..so why not give us that mentality and learn to play.. alot of the more experienced palyers have done some shamefull stuff as well so no one is innocent in this lets just hope we can get a better resolve than having to go marshal law iwmc

so continue to add men to the banlist./ safelist ftw

[Doobs]

it possible for me to get on the safe list with my funny character 'synergist' name?? i have a normal character 'synergist' name...buh i really really like my funny character one.:rolleyes:

[Paradoxxx]

copy paste it

[Blood_creed]

Man Gone away and come back to here about banlist and thing.....!!!! it should improve the quality of games and hopefully... and better gaming society....plz note i drunk while typing this.....soo...

[Ihsan]

I'm not really opposed to the idea of a banlist but a few points:

In every endeavor there will be great, bad and average. No rules or lists can change this. Basic statistical theory proves that unless there is 1 person alone on the server the skill levels is a bell curve and someone will suck (by comparison).

I know the channel used is called GOSU but there aren't enough people online at any time to fill more than 1 channel anyway. GOSU=Lobby.

What I think is that we need more players on the server. Banning members will not achieve this.

:mad: It is annoying when someone is SELLING YOUR GAME and not listening to good advice but remember this: IT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO LEARN HOW TO BRING OUT THE BEST IN YOUR TEAMMATES THAN TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY DOTA.:)

[phoenix31tt]

yay i get to quote myself :D

and it is my understanding that GAMERS implementation of the banlist wasnt really meant for n00bs (unless they are extremely n00by like clark) but more meant for leavers who ruin gg's etc... hence ano/xen was on it...


so ish is not once u sellin u does go on the blist :D but selling profusely and leaving games gets u on the blist... and frankly server does be a better place without those likes :D

[slickdre]

true everone want a good 5v5 that an if certai player are not willin to put out that effort or dont know how to build up a hero an help your team win then is no sence to be in the match

[scaR]

I think the focus should be on leavers, laggers and drops. Noobs we can live with and help out.

I see many peeps complaining about this Rko guy, this man seems to alt tab a lot and even lagged in a TD I hosted. He didn't drop though.

[phoenix31tt]

ok well if this list is still promoted jus finish a game with "rich" played with him before and he is a n00b and seller whatever... but thats ok... maybe he will learn... but for this he deserves to be on blist....

go sk in a game ... game goin good... we were prolly gonna win... he sold with SK... and then afked... with each side only have 3 towers left the man afked and we lost steups... blist for that man

[Paradoxxx]

The list was recently updated with some of the newer aliases and player on the server.

An important one to note is foxxx/boboshanti he seems to be changing his nick often to try to get in ggs. ASP on the other hand seems to be a good player anyways the updates are done in real time so im sure those using the list have already seen the updates.

I have an idea for the next evolution of the list, at present I have to manually rate new players and do checks for alias, I can have a program do all of this for me.

[phoenix31tt]

if you get that program it would be great... list would be always updated etc... what does tda use? if u know

another thing we hadda start promoting the blist more... host need to start using it...
at least the banlist... is ok if they use blist method instead of safelist method... greater chance of gg's

[Paradoxxx]

TDA uses the same technique I am thinking about (well my idea is based on theirs) with their own programs which they keep to themselves with good reasoning.

The idea is that everyone is safe until they are proven to be unsafe, they have a win limit to become safelisted as to prevent players from being banned and making a new account. For our scenario I have access to information that will allow me to lock all future accounts of persons found to be on the banlist.

An important feature is having a group of persons manage the info on players in a structured formal manner unlike what I have been doing. Im thinking in addition to the comical comments have a serious score which is an average of each score submitted by reviewers.

Its still something I need to put down on paper but my logic and techniques are sound and much of the code is based on TGBOT. Right now I have a GUI for this task but to make it portable to unix environments I'll have to scrap that.

Seriously speaking I doubt many players will use the list, not meant to offend anyone but there exists a group of players who seem to be bent on doing what they want and will allow players who misbehave into their games.

I am thinking to have a 3rd list of some sorts not attached to the banlist program, this list will attempt to permanently ban users on it from the server. I see banlisted players as players that need to either work on their game (its reallly bad), have technical issues, very bad mannered.

[phoenix31tt]

Seriously speaking I doubt many players will use the list, not meant to offend anyone but there exists a group of players who seem to be bent on doing what they want and will allow players who misbehave into their games.

I am thinking to have a 3rd list of some sorts not attached to the banlist program, this list will attempt to permanently ban users on it from the server. I see banlisted players as players that need to either work on their game (its reallly bad), have technical issues, very bad mannered.

true @ its up to host themselves to behave properly for a better tg...
and i think that most host's does want there games filled and ready to go fast so dey doh really care who join as long as they gettin a game... desperation i say...
and then the next set of hosts who will let known noobs/laggers etc play once they not on their side...
hmm... it have nuff men on server to get purely gg's

[Paradoxxx]

Indeed and many of the former 'weak players' have proven themselves worthy to be in these games. Redman for instance minus a shitty PC he is playing very well.

[soldier]

I always told my self when I get DSL only certain men will be playing in my games. Like i always say a gosu 3v3 > n00by 5v5.

I will probably be hated MORE due to this but tough; that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Para, what about sold and his shitty connection? :D:cool:

[Paradoxxx]

A host pushing for GG's will most likely get 'negative feedback' from persons being rejected from his game. Personally I am @ TG to get in a good game and not here to make friends, if I make you vex and you are willing to play at your VERY best to try and beat me then my goal is being satisfied.

As of late I have been playing some games that are just plain boring, even with the 'I must beat para' mentality many fall way short. Its so bad that we have been trying to figure out ways to handicap our game (without player swaping) to make things fun and challenging. Recently we realized that our gameplay has decreased because of playing with newbs and have resumed training on tda.

[phoenix31tt]

well para yuh must have that... when u have a full 5 man team who does "practice on tda" and yuh playin random sides (most of the men doh even know what a good team game is)... so the only way u will get truley good gg's with ur side... is to play a next side... or men who know dota is not all about kills...

[RawRr]

Jus wondering, what do you'll consider backdooring now?
Before when i used to play backdoor was considered to be any attempt to destroy a tower where none of your creep wave is there wheter it be a tower outside or in main base.

And even when some ppl do backdoor they always seem to have a big excuse to defend themselves and claim its not backdooring etc.

And I believe with this method you'll get better games yes... but ppl always pm host for space etc or space for friends etc kicking the unknown players or less known players so they dont even get a proper judgement of wheter their good or not even though its most likely that they are a noob >_<.

[Paradoxxx]

backdooring in tda is legal believe it or not however its rarely ever done and seen as bad manner to backdoor. In the games ive played, a vote is called whether to bd or not.

In my view backdooring should not be legal and I think thats the view of most local authorities on the matter. Anyways for the official definition

backdooring is defined as attack a base building (tower, raks, throne etc) with intent of a backdoor without initially entering with a creepwave.

What does this mean?
1) You can rambo outside towers without creeps
2) Once you enter the base legally you can take the entire base including other base towers.
3) if you accidentally hit the building a chop on your way out of the base or by some mistake you will not be penalized but if you persist as to show intent of bd you will be penalized. Kinda subjective.

Although #1 is permissible I dislike it and refrain from it.

[phoenix31tt]

1. i thought tda considered ramboin twrs without creeps period is backdooring... but backdooring base twrs are illegal... whereas backdooring outside twrs are legal :S ?

2. you saying if you take the top twr and your creeps are inside base... your team can then proceed to the bottom twr (creeps wont follow as they hit the first thing in site) and take eeet?

3. ramboing (outside twrs) actually brings about another aspect of team play and "figuring out" as @ high levels a team could roll through without creeps and take a twr... the other team wont be prepared for it etc as men accustom to only takin twrs when creeps there... it also makes for a faster game because when a team see a creep wave with heroes nearing a twr they will go defend it... this happens often if both teams are balanced and games end up in sort of a stalemate till 1 team gains an advantage

[kaizen]

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[heady]

The list was recently updated with some of the newer aliases and player on the server.

An important one to note is foxxx/boboshanti he seems to be changing his nick often to try to get in ggs. ASP on the other hand seems to be a good player anyways the updates are done in real time so im sure those using the list have already seen the updates.

I have an idea for the next evolution of the list, at present I have to manually rate new players and do checks for alias, I can have a program do all of this for me.

Boboshanti aint foxxx.

Boboshanti is meh bro he does use crashkid too sometimes, He is Real shit but he learning.

I does finish he game sometimes too when i get fedup of him doing shit.

edit:i seeing real ppl in meh games dat not listed doh allyuh sticking who does update it?

[phoenix31tt]

I does finish he game sometimes too when i get fedup of him doing shit.


try and teach the man nah...
my cousing use to come on server and sell and i tell dont go back on... i teach him some things and then he went back on... he still n00b but he doh sell... :D

[Paradoxxx]

i update the list, I would appreciate if you list some of those users here. It is quite possible that I don't meet/play the persons you played with and didn't update accordingly.

[Doobs]

quote from safelist

"katsu average player, has potential, seems to know builds. "
"§ilk doesn't know proper builds and kill steals"


lol...katsu = silk fyi.....lol:p

[slickdre]

lol...woot katsu is my coworker

i though he was goin with the name silk

so goin to look for him on the server ent doobs??

[Paradoxxx]

Thanks for the information doobs, if i knew of the alias i would have updated katsu entry to indicate the new information.

In a few games playing against katsu he built those heros well (troll, ns) but it seems he doesn't know how to properly build certain intel heros (rhasta).

Good point, i'll keep this noted when formalizing the banlist.

[Xen_Lunchbox]

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a little off topic?

[Paradoxxx]

1. i thought tda considered ramboin twrs without creeps period is backdooring... but backdooring base twrs are illegal... whereas backdooring outside twrs are legal :S ?

2. you saying if you take the top twr and your creeps are inside base... your team can then proceed to the bottom twr (creeps wont follow as they hit the first thing in site) and take eeet?

3. ramboing (outside twrs) actually brings about another aspect of team play and "figuring out" as @ high levels a team could roll through without creeps and take a twr... the other team wont be prepared for it etc as men accustom to only takin twrs when creeps there... it also makes for a faster game because when a team see a creep wave with heroes nearing a twr they will go defend it... this happens often if both teams are balanced and games end up in sort of a stalemate till 1 team gains an advantage

1) In tda games as well as cal they accept restrictions put by IceFrog to be sufficient and rely on that. Towers fall from outwards -> Throne/Tree

2) Yes, once you are in the base you can do as you will, even end the game by killing the throne/tree.

3) its a nasty move and can be used by either party to change the balance of a battle. I would avoid it as it put doubt in the game as to whether the game would have been won if it wasn't done.

[scaR]

I think in high level games both sides tend to leave towers up for as long as possible as it gives some sight and territorial control. Once you rush a tower the other team will do so as well, so that is somewhat avoided. Later on it's just a false sense of security which can work to your advantage.

[phoenix31tt]

I think in high level games both sides tend to leave towers up for as long as possible as it gives some sight and territorial control. Once you rush a tower the other team will do so as well, so that is somewhat avoided. Later on it's just a false sense of security which can work to your advantage.

yep... thais why i tend to not push towers to quickly even if i am dominating in my lane... it gives u a chance to farm more and get that uber gear :D

[Paradoxxx]

Killing a tower has financial incentives as well, ~400g to the player that actually kills it and +200g to everyone else. While this may quantify to 4/5 creeps (if you only get 200g) thats still alot of gold.

It also make the lane longer (in my words) increasing the potential for a gank. Eventually though as players gain levels and items a tower will not be a source of protection, 3 on 1 ganks can be done so quickly that the tower will only be able to dish out a few lashes on a hero.

Alternatively using a spell only gank when creeps are tanking will prevent the tower from focusing your hero.

[phoenix31tt]

Killing a tower has financial incentives as well, ~400g to the player that actually kills it and +200g to everyone else. While this may quantify to 4/5 creeps (if you only get 200g) thats still alot of gold.

It also make the lane longer (in my words) increasing the potential for a gank. Eventually though as players gain levels and items a tower will not be a source of protection, 3 on 1 ganks can be done so quickly that the tower will only be able to dish out a few lashes on a hero.

Alternatively using a spell only gank when creeps are tanking will prevent the tower from focusing your hero.

so you sayin early twr pushing is good or bad? in ur opinion

[mysticalears]

so you saying early twr pushing is good or bad? in ur opinion

Early tower pushing can be both bad or good, depending on the situaion.

The BAD.

Killing the enemies' twr quickly, MAY open up the lane that the tower is lost to more ganking than usual.

Most times, you will have to to FURTHER into enemy's territory to gain the same amount of XP you would have gain if the tower was still up and functional. (going to far in enemies' territory is ALWAYS a bad thing.

Also, killing the enemy's tower quickly, will obviously mean that the enemy have the greater chance of gaining more gold than you AND XP, because MORE of your creeps will be flowing through his lane (since you killed the tower)

N.B. Have you all ever noticed that when say, on solo lane you bust down your opponent's quick quick, that he (because of a combination of the above) most likely gets stronger than you in the end of the game? Well, a culmination of the above points is the reason for this "strange" happening.

So, experience will tell you when it's a good time to "down the twr" A balance of not to early, and not to late is the key.


The GOOD

hmmm, well if you have gosu pushers like Furion, KOTL, Techies, Enigma Chen ETC, then pushing twrs early is a GOOD thing to do. Since, they MAIN job is to push. So, this is where pushing twrs early is a good thing.

If the majority of YOUR team are early gamers with the ability to push, and the other team members are WEAK early gamers but STRONG late gamers then pushing early has it's advantages.

So, it really depends on SITUATION. whether to push early or not. But, as MOST things in life, it has it's ups and it's downs, you have been warned.

BTW UN installed Warcraft 3 for a while, that's the reason for my absence in Gosu, don't know when I am coming back. Hmmm Clark might beat me when I do...

Peace out.

[scaR]

Back on topic.

Using 3.0 the banlist.php and safelist.php files require being renamed to .xml for the banlist to even see them. Then they contain errors when I try to add them. Do we need a reformat on the lists?