Why Is There No Sf 3s Tourney?

[Styx.]

I've already spoken to the console admins boxlunck/geese about this. I've heard their views and agreed with them until I had more time to think it through.

The arguments are as follows
-----------------------------------------
The "usual suspects" will dominate.
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I could have almost put up with this because I'm accustomed to people turning into scared little bitches when a REAL challenge comes their way. I'm fed up of that, grow spines and play.

I've been reading on these very forums something about you guys having the best counter strike team in the country. I don't see anyone cancelling Source tournaments because of that.

This adds to the point that that course of argument is weak and baseless. If it weren't, it would be overly hypocritical of said tourney organizers.

-----------------------------------------
Not many people know the game
-----------------------------------------
Who's fault is that? Don't the people here have internet access? Have they ever tried doing research on what they play? I guess not. This almost looked valid to me as well but the fact remains that there ARE people playing this game in significant numbers now more than ever what with the console release some time ago. I can name at least 10 that would come to such an even off the top of my head. I'm not talking about your sweat regulars either. It isn't my responsibility to attract a crowd for the event but I'm just proving a point.

We could try to rationalize this all we want but the fact remains that not many people know the other games being run at the tournament. Half the Guilty Gear people entering the tournament don't know what a dust loop is, or even what a false roman cancel is. They still play regardless. Does it subtract from the competition to an extreme degree? I don't think so. Hell, half the people playing Source at java don't read through the patch update info txt file showing the updates and edits etc. I'm sure recent patches are installed on the systems nevertheless.

Is there ANY reason proper enough to NOT have such a tournament?

Discuss.

[loki]

i had the same talk with the console admin
cuz sf3 is the only street fighter i like enough to play :D
tho i am nooby cuz i dont play it much...
the main excuse i got was that hyper sf will pull more crowd compared to sf3 ....

so i said ok ...
i already have gg:R# and tekken 5 to play.. :D

[Geese]

polling time :P

[Itachi]

i say yay to sf3 tourney, much better than having a hyper fighting tourney imo, as it takes a wider attention span to play imo !!

[Geese]

and you don't die as fast..unless u fighting yun..or dudley..or makoto..or gill..

[Styx.]

Or Urien...Trust me on that.

[Bob]

Yun ............. :cry2: THE HORROR *sob* THE HORROR!!!!!

[Itachi]

you, referring to players in general ? or u referring to me in specific ? cuz i always die really fast !!!

[Fault]

Originally posted by Itachi@Jun 29 2005, 12:46 AM
you, referring to players in general ? or u referring to me in specific ? cuz i always die really fast !!!
Quoted post

^^ Ummm... what did I do to you to be in your Sig? One of my many victims? ^^

Neway... good points Styx... Especially that first one, They just won the last source tournament and the one before that as well. But I have lost faith in java management on the whole, their logic as a collective is weird, men who supporting them since before Java was can't ask favours and proper logic only applies to the PC section as you would see by reviewing your arguements but I guess thas where they make their money, I used to think Gamers was about more than just the money though. I'm still looking on....

[killa]

well styx. proper action has been taken and a poll has been set up concerning the last game for the gamecon
and it wasnt para or any of them who said that the final 3 men for sure go be u,geese and fault...is geese say dat -.-
honestly dont matter which one it is, i go compete, have fun etc etc

with regards 2 java management issue, i think yall talking bout the getting of the tvs for the console section right? ( if i wrong let me know)

the main issue is, right now java cant purchase the tv's and have them running there cause the whole of java isnt open atm..where the tv's supposed 2 go right now is occupied by the drinks machine..
and u say why not move the drinks machine and put the tvs there..the issue of the door still plays a major factor..
currently that is the only entrance to java, so if u have ur console there running( and it go be stretch from where the drinks machine is now to the other wall) ur cord be in the "passage way" men might trip on it and cause ur ps or whatever console to fall and get mash up etc etc etc, den u go wanna get vex
so right now with respect to the tv, we hadda wait till the rest of java is open so they could lock off the curent door then we go see the tv up in dat beetch

hope i cleared up some issues there

[LARUTO]

i ent no pro in SF3, but i like the game enough to take part in a tournament.

[Paradoxxx]

Fault before I get carried away, what has made you say that "GAMERS/Java is about making money"? I await a reply on this issue, I believe that you are making serious and unfounded comments.

I noticed alot of emphasis placed on comparing SOF and Source and why has gamers decided to put emphasis on Source rather than SOF. SOF II is a fun game, it had its spotlight in local gaming and has been here for quite a while simply because of the lack of vision of the dominant gaming association at the time.

Many gamers hold SOF2 High in their books, but what does this really do for our image in the international arena. SOF2 is NOT known in the international arena at ALL atleast in the professional leagues. Should we wish to take our game out of the country (which is our grand goal) would SOF2 help in any way? NO!, CounterStrike is the worlds most played game, it is the game SOF2 is based on, it is known throughout the world. SOF2 popularity was again a marketing mistake made by G@TT. That mistake has thrown us back 2-3years..

Especially that first one, They just won the last source tournament and the one before that as well.


GAMERS has proven that without doubt we have the TOP CS Source/SOF2 players in the country. We are not self proclaiming anything... Silverhawk,Phoenix, Diablo, Destroyer etc have dominated SOF2 winning all but a few tourneys and eX1 has made open challenes and challenged the nations best and won. Should you think that you can form a team to defeat a GAMERS clan in CS: S, stop complaining that the game doesnt have lean and that its not SOF2 and organize a team, ill show you why we are the nations best.

Source is also the most popular FPS in GAMERS, both CG and Java frequently sweat source.

I have no clue of whats going on the console community, what i do know is that bryan master and imperial are great tekken players even Nijelian supposedly hot in tekken5. We are having a tekken 5 tourney, this means that most likely Bryan/Imperial gonna win, we arnt calling it off.


I dont agree with the point that we shouldnt have a tourney because there are persons that dominate the game. This should be our motivation.

I AGREE with the point that should there be a small community or lack of play of a game we should NOT run that game for a tourney. However if the game is really good we should atleast make some effort to promote it.

Our intention is to move away from Source into battlefield 2 another globally competitive popular game. This has been seen as a bad move by some of the nations senior professional gamers and its something we have to address. Personally I am going where the competition is, we have defeated titan after titan in the PC arena, time to kick some more ass in a new game.

[Styx.]

All I did was compare CS and SoF for simplicity sake so that you could easily understand the console situation. I'm sure you are more familiar with those games rather than you are with the console scene.

Most if not all the points you have made in comparison between Source and SoF is exactly what I'm trying to say. You rarely would see a hyper tournament at the international level. The oldest thing they'd play is Super Street Fighter Turbo 2. That's about as old school as you can get internationally. If you would just replace Source with SF3 and SoF with Hyper you'll more than get the situation.

All I'm trying to do is start some constructive decision as to why Hyper over SF3. This is where the comparison came into play.

My interest in forming any FPS team is miniscule if not non-existant. Look at the thread topic more closely.


I heard from the admins that you were having a hyper tourney. While I would have no problem with that because I love the game, its going too far backward for those of use who want to get into the more recent, tournament played stuff.

BTW, where did Fault post here?

PS Nijelian is Rape Fodder in T5.

[Paradoxxx]

Scroll up a bit for the fault post. Its there. So why Nijelian boasts so much if he is merely an average player?

K, so lets approach the topic directly.

Comparing Tekken5, Guilty Gear XX #R, SF3S on an international playing field along with local popularity. If we were to choose 2 games which would they be? Should a game lack popularity locally but its played ALOT online, whats the cause of the local downfall?

[Geese]

All 3 have their active communities online.

Shoryuken.com is Street Fighter
Gamecombos.com & Romancancel.com is GG
TekkenZaibatsu.com is Tekken

Tekken and Street Fighter are by far the most popular in Trinidad, main reason they've been around longer and have had more exposure than GG. How many arcades have Guilty Gear XX or even just plain X ?

[Paradoxxx]

While i undertand we cant please everyone (have a tourney for every game), should we not cater for the majority? Is there something Im not getting with respect to why we choose #r?

I know #r is playable on the PC, thats a good thing in terms of venue. We can run that @ java on the PC, that shouldnt affect anything right...?

[Geese]

Guilty Gear on PC is no problem the only persons who have voiced concern so far are some of the VGA guys. The only problem i can think of is the keyboard vs keyboard issue.
The reason GGXX was chosen was to help develop it into another recognized fighter and tournament game much like how Java started the Source development when everyone else was playing SOF.

[inc0gnit0]

You're right Geese. In the end I think keyboard is horrible for any fighting game. I've had some play time with #r on pc and I'm happy to say I see no problems with framerate and the like. What I don't like is my sudden inability to land FRC's or even RC's. I don't like the idea of mapping groups of buttons or macros and the like. While I understand it's essential for pc, I feel like it detracts from required skill... I ordered a converter a while back and when I (eventually) get it I'd be happy to say if it has any lag.

I find T5 is a great game as well however it seems to lack some balance and even at times, SEEMINGLY it seems to lack depth. And to stay on the original topic I say YEA to the idea of having a 3s tourney. I'm personally not good at it (yet) but if my opinion counts it's a very interesting game to watch and is extremely deep as far as the sf series goes.

My 2 cents...

[killa]

We are having a tekken 5 tourney, this means that most likely Bryan/Imperial gonna win, we arnt calling it off.
*chucks his WANG into the fray
hold phone doxxx
it does have real talent showing up for tourneys out of no where
and plz dont count out urs truely
i could do a lil something with meh wang...ent styxx ;) ( NOT GAY!)

[Styx.]

Man this site gives me some screwed up stuff. That post by Fault came up under Laruto's account in my browser. It might be that or the fact I haven't slept for more than an hour in the past three days.

I'm going with the browser though. I get problems on this site to stay logged in on the forums. Everytime I come in here, I have to retype my ACC and password. Even after doing that, if I go into a thread, I'll get logged out and have to sign in all over again.

PS Killa, be wary of those wanting to bruise your wang!!!!!!!! <----- BISEXUAL - girls can hurt your wang like whoa.

[Paradoxxx]

Rb/killa what do you think about sacrificing a #r for a 3s? 3s has a pS2 version i hope.


Site issues
K, im seeing fault... here/java/work..

The way I keep logged in is by creating a bookmark of the sites forum page after login.

I await faults elaboration of his claims.

[killa]

yes it does have a ps2 version
and well...i go hada have a lil talk with rb bout that oui
woulda be nice 2 have the three but i know we go be presses for time and resources

[Fault]

Originally posted by Paradoxxx@Jun 29 2005, 11:03 PM
Rb/killa what do you think about sacrificing a #r for a 3s? 3s has a pS2 version i hope.
Site issues
K, im seeing fault... here/java/work..

The way I keep logged in is by creating a bookmark of the sites forum page after login.

I await faults elaboration of his claims.
Quoted post

Where you are quoting me there, the point is exactly that you aren't self-proclaiming anything, there has actually been a tourney where you wiped the floor with the competition... There haven't been ANY Console tournies yet you're saying the usual suspects will dominate.... If you read Styx's post properly you would see no-one is fighting the Sof vs Source war. He's using it show a comparison. Me saying the same thing would be going to Starcraft instead of Warcraft, ergo Hyper vs 3S.

Here is Fault's elaboration of his claims.

Claims 1 & 2.
Fault brings converter so we can play ps2 on monitor. We ask if we can use it saying we're gonna leave time running on it so it's not a free thing. You can check that on the server + device has instant switch back to pc system. Again no is the word. We were gonna use the one in the conrner near the entrance to the back room so no blockage of other patrons would occur. If you wanna say equipment would be damaged ok. Even though I'm A+ Net+ MCP MCSA and 1 exam away from MCSE. Not to mention I get a Phat sal at the UWI for PC / Net / AV / Multimedia Support. That would still be ok, what was the WEIRD reason? "People are happy with the games.".

Claim 3.
Sweat night. 5 -6 guys around one TV. Certain java management says we have to pay cuz we using current or something like that. Note: Tv belongs to rick james and PS2 belongs to Fault. So we say we are staying until 12 and ask if we can pay like $10 or something. Certain Java management says No we have to pay $30. 6 men have to pay $30 each to sweat on one TV from 10 - 12! Electirity for one tv on for an entire day is about $10? WTF is that Para? You tell me.

Here are my seroius and heavily unfounded claims. All this being said I am not Anti-Java I still come and sweat and train source. I am just calling it as I see it, nothing wrong with running your business how you want to, just don't say you're pro-gamers when you do.... Oh yeah seeing as Fault is a dude who goes around making UNFOUNDED COMMENTS, you can have a chat with Chunks & Levi.

Killa the TVs thing is a background Issue not to mention Java promised TVs since the moving from Small Java to Behind Sip Java stage.

PS. I know just knowing me makes you cool but still. Is it necessary to put me in your sig? Geez... groupies.... This message has been color coded for easy reading for those who would otherwise find it difficult to do so... this message brought to you by IDGAF

[Fault]

Yeah I don't have net home. So i normally check these forum things on work. I prolly left a page open on my PC at work. Sorry abt that.

[LARUTO]

paying $30 a head for a TV use? i thought is only HQ used to overcharge :P

a next man get tie up woth the BB code, i think it's time automated messages are sent out to all members when updates are made.

[Paradoxxx]

Claim 1.
Sweat night. 5 -6 guys around one TV. Certain java management says we have to pay cuz we using current or some BS like that. Note: Tv belongs to rick james and PS2 belongs to Fault. So we say we are staying until 12 and ask if we can pay like $10 or something. Certain Java management says No we have to pay $30. 6 men have to pay $30 each to sweat on one TV from 10 - 12! electirity for one tv on for 1 day is about $10? WTF is that Para? You tell me.

Certain java management wouldnt be me and if it aint me...

I made mention that "its there TV, Their console, we cant charge them for the current... " Shinori even came and asked me if he could lime around for the sweat to use the PC and I gave him approval.

The TV caused a little problems with its position at the entrance and added crowd. However I mentioned to the manager in question the non financial beniefits and that this situation was a temporary one. Java would soon get its own TV and we can see this as an idea of the crowd we may attract.

Claim 1: Misunderstanding

Claim 2.
Fault brings converter so we can play ps2 on monitor. We ask if we can use it saying we're gonna leave time running on it so it's not a free thing. You can check that on the server + device has instant switch back to pc system. Again no is the word. We were gonna use the one in the conrner near the entrance to the back room so no blockage of other patrons would occur. If you wanna say equipment would be damaged ok. Even though I'm A+ Net+ MCP MCSA and 1 exam away from MCSE. Not to mention I get a Phat sal at the UWI for PC / Net / AV / Multimedia Support. That would still be ok what was the reason? "People are happy with the games.".


This was never brought to my attention!! I have been looking for such a device. Java could probably purchase some BIG monitors 21" or 19" instead of TVs.

Is it an external or internal device? If it is internal I could understand the worry, though you may have alot of Certs and what we call a 'cert admin' that doesnt mean that Java management has confidence in you doing stuff in their system.

Please elaborate on the use of the device.

Box the TVs thing is a background Issue not mention java promised TVs since the moving from Small Java to Behind Sip Java stage.

We intended to get TVs towards the end of Java 2.0 (behind sns), we decided to put priority to food rather than the TVs for now. While SnS was there the console gamers could always use SnS facilities for their console needs.

On to Java 3.0, We intended to have a 100% running cafe from the first day. I dont know if you noticed that Java is only partially opened while paying electric/rent/maintainance etc etc for the full operation.

There is more to running a cafe than just getting money/spending money. Market trends needs to be taken into consideration, we cant say hey we made $1 000 000 this mth lets go spend it all out!! and next mth we get lower sales and because of overheads we end up making - $500 000. Fixed costs and fluctuating income.

You made mention that you wish to start an internet cafe of your own someday, should you do so I would advise doing a cert in management and comman sense.

Want someone to blame for the lack of TVs?
Call 7881405 Rodney <-- Thats the guy that sticking and frustrating the hell outta java management.

PS. I know just knowing me makes you cool but still. Is it necessary to put me in your sig? Geez... groupies.... This message has been color coded for easy reading for those who would otherwise find it difficult to do so... this message brought to you by IDGAF
While your attitude has attracted 'groupies', killas sig isnt directly attacking you. He is utilizing a command called the YOU command that places the NICK of the view in place of the YOU.

http://www.enterthegosu.com/Invision/index...?showtopic=1662 (http://www.enterthegosu.com/Invision/index.php?showtopic=1662)

Both you claims were directed to events that I have not been aware of or were directly involved. I think you are going to the wrong channels to have your concerns dealt with. Talk to me about your concerns via PM, publicly etc I frequently visit these forums. You know my role at java, you know my role in gamers.

Summary
Talk to para

[Fault]

Originally posted by Paradoxxx@Jun 30 2005, 10:45 AM
Certain java management wouldnt be me and if it aint me...

I made mention that "its there TV, Their console, we cant charge them for the current... " Shinori even came and asked me if he could lime around for the sweat to use the PC and I gave him approval.

The TV caused a little problems with its position at the entrance and added crowd. However I mentioned to the manager in question the non financial beniefits and that this situation was a temporary one. Java would soon get its own TV and we can see this as an idea of the crowd we may attract.

Claim 1: Misunderstanding
This was never brought to my attention!! I have been looking for such a device. Java could probably purchase some BIG monitors 21" or 19" instead of TVs.

Is it an external or internal device? If it is internal I could understand the worry, though you may have alot of Certs and what we call a 'cert admin' that doesnt mean that Java management has confidence in you doing stuff in their system.

Please elaborate on the use of the device.
We intended to get TVs towards the end of Java 2.0 (behind sns), we decided to put priority to food rather than the TVs for now. While SnS was there the console gamers could always use SnS facilities for their console needs.

On to Java 3.0, We intended to have a 100% running cafe from the first day. I dont know if you noticed that Java is only partially opened while paying electric/rent/maintainance etc etc for the full operation.

There is more to running a cafe than just getting money/spending money. Market trends needs to be taken into consideration, we cant say hey we made $1 000 000 this mth lets go spend it all out!! and next mth we get lower sales and because of overheads we end up making - $500 000. Fixed costs and fluctuating income.

You made mention that you wish to start an internet cafe of your own someday, should you do so I would advise doing a cert in management and comman sense.

Want someone to blame for the lack of TVs?
Call 7881405 Rodney <-- Thats the guy that sticking and frustrating the hell outta java management.
While your attitude has attracted 'groupies', killas sig isnt directly attacking you. He is utilizing a command called the YOU command that places the NICK of the view in place of the YOU.

http://www.enterthegosu.com/Invision/index...?showtopic=1662 (http://www.enterthegosu.com/Invision/index.php?showtopic=1662)

Both you claims were directed to events that I have not been aware of or were directly involved. I think you are going to the wrong channels to have your concerns dealt with. Talk to me about your concerns via PM, publicly etc I frequently visit these forums. You know my role at java, you know my role in gamers.

Summary
Talk to para
Quoted post


Quote #1 & all at that: No misunderstanding. What was said was said what was done was done. There was NO misunderstanding. What you aren't realising is that I am not willing/ neither should I have to Bouncy Ball and Beggar jumping between you and other management with requests. Java maganement is Java management. Not so? One for all and all for one. Not to mention you're not there often. If one man throws me out I'm not asking another to stay and have the first look at me funny in HIS PLACE. Sense or nonsense?

Should you do so I would advise doing a cert in management and comman sense.

I personally find that a stupid and unnecessary insult, If you're discussing things, discuss like a man. And considering the point you made you could have at least spelt common sense right (o and a are too far apart for that to be a typo). I said you didn't do what you said you would do. What does me saying that have to do with Business Management? Talking about Business management if management entities in the same organisation follow different COAs in the same situation and have different policies then that organisation is badly managed. Simple fact. You did not do what you said you would do. There may be a credible reason, but you DIDN'T. So if a man says he will bring something for you and day by day he doesn't but he has good reasons hasn't he still not brought it for you? His credibility is thus lost.

Quote #2
The device is an EXTERNAL device.

Read smart, think smart. Peace out.

[Paradoxxx]

Originally posted by Fault@Jun 30 2005, 12:21 PM
Quote #1 & all at that: No misunderstanding. What was said was said what was done was done. There was NO misunderstanding. What you aren't realising is that I am not willing/ neither should I have to Bouncy Ball and Beggar jumping between you and other management with requests. Java maganement is Java management. Not so? One for all and all for one. Not to mention you're not there often. If one man throws me out I'm not asking another to stay and have the first look at me funny in HIS PLACE. Sense or nonsense?

Should you do so I would advise doing a cert in management and comman sense.

I personally find that a stupid and unnecessary insult, If you're discussing things, discuss like a man. And considering the point you made you could have at least spelt common sense right (o and a are too far apart for that to be a typo). I said you didn't do what you said you would do. What does me saying that have to do with Business Management? Talking about Business management if management entities in the same organisation follow different COAs in the same situation and have different policies then that organisation is badly managed. Simple fact. You did not do what you said you would do. There may be a credible reason, but you DIDN'T. So if a man says he will bring something for you and day by day he doesn't but he has good reasons hasn't he still not brought it for you? His credibility is thus lost.

Quote #2
The device is an EXTERNAL device.

Read smart, think smart. Peace out.
Quoted post



Your ignorance is well noted. It makes no sense talking to fault, just wasting time. Ill talk to the console admins, the general console gamers and things will get done.

Indeed my spelling is quite bad. Maybe I should do the MCSP exam.


I consider this matter resolved, the problems have been addressed.

GAMERS is pro gamers, should there be any problem with the gamers and members of staff at java, or management at java feel free to contact me.

The TVs will come when java is ready. Till then SnS is near by, Rick sometimes brings his TV, which we dont charge to use regardless of Faults statement.

N.B. WE NOT CHARGING FOR USE OF RICK TV

Fault for what its worth (with your ignorance i guess its not worth much), Im sorry for the impression you got.

GG

[Fault]

Originally posted by Paradoxxx@Jun 30 2005, 01:31 PM
Your ignorance is well noted. It makes no sense talking to fault, just wasting time. Ill talk to the console admins, the general console gamers and things will get done.

Indeed my spelling is quite bad. Maybe I should do the MCSP exam.
I consider this matter resolved, the problems have been addressed.

GAMERS is pro gamers, should there be any problem with the gamers and members of staff at java, or management at java feel free to contact me.

The TVs will come when java is ready. Till then SnS is near by, Rick sometimes brings his TV, which we dont charge to use regardless of Faults statement.

N.B. WE NOT CHARGING FOR USE OF RICK TV

GG
Quoted post


My ignorance is well noted? Did you read a thing I said? You're the one throwing insults I haven't thrown one. I didn't say you charge to use the TV I said what happened to me. I illustrated why Java/Gamers as a whole lost credibility for me and why my opinion is what it is.

I'm past the issues themselves, what i'm looking at now is your failure to acknowledge my opinion.

The basis of this is you say my claims were unfounded and they were very founded all i want is for you to say is: Fault I hear what you said, future times will be better.

You're saying future times will be better but you aren't saying Fault I hear what you said. So in other words problems fixed but Fault is still the dude going around making Unfounded Comments. Apology due in other words. All I'm looking for is my credibility back. I see where I am wrong though. If the way Gamers is Pro-Gamers is through Paradoxx(SUMMARY TALK TO PARA) and not 'Gamers' as a collective then ok that's the way it is and it's workable, personalities are always in effect, I got on a high horse and forgot that. I'm man enough to say where I'm wrong... are you?

[Fault]

As you would see in the quote of my last post that apology wasn't there yet.

Nice mix of apology/insult. But seeing as you haven't read my last post yet It slides.

Shows you know it's time to apologize but you just can't do it straight out. You should have been a little more sophisticated in your apo/retort though(like me), but fair enough.

:coolthumb:

[Fault]

Oh yeah, If you really want the specs on the thingy I have a pdf.

[BigBoss]

Now d two ah allyuh bein lil B#^%$ fuh d grown ass men that i know U are. Is d 2 ah yall alone back N forth here THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS